[App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

Thu Jul 14 01:22:29 UTC 2011

Not exactly -

The CTCSS stops as soon as Asterisk wants to stop it. That would be when the
input CTCSS is detected as stopping or when some recording, or ID, has
finished. Of course it takes some finite amount of time for Asterisk DSP to
decide that the input CTCSS has really stopped.

Then the hang timer starts timing.  The PTT drops when the hang timer times
out. The CTCSS will have been stopped  essentially for the duration of the
hang timer.

GL

Ken

From: Lu Vencl [mailto:vencl at att.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 9:15 PM
To: 'Ken'; 'Paul J. Agamata'; bdboyle at bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

So let me lay out a few notes to clarify.

In the "notone" mode, the CTCSS encoding is present on all transmissions,
including CWID, announcements etc. Then at the end of each transmission, the
CTCSS encoding stops at hang timer expiration and then the PTT is released
about 300-500 ms later. I will need to measure that to confirm the amount.
For most radios the current amount of delay is sufficient, but Yaesu wants a
tad bit more delay before the mute occurs, thus you still hear the squelch
burst.. Obviously this has no bearing on operation as everything works fine,
however for the purpose of improving the process / project, I simply wanted
to point it out.

Sounds like this is nothing a config file can fix at this time, but in a
future release, the option to tweak this parameter or perhaps a second
predefined value would be a plus.

From: Ken [mailto:ke2n at cs.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:58 PM
To: 'Paul J. Agamata'; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle at bdboyle.com;
app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

Hmmm - maybe I was not clear 

If you let Asterisk do the CTCSS detection and generation, select "notone"
in your config file and set the hang time (in the other config file) to
something reasonable, then users - who have turned on their tone squelch -
will hear no squelch tail.  Isn't that what we are trying to do?

Ken

From: Paul J. Agamata [mailto:Sysman at Xceptions.COM] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:19 PM
To: Ken; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle at bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

The parameter can be tweaked in code but I don't believe you can do it from
the configuration files itself (at least I haven't found a way to do it).
Another thing that might help the situation is even though your using COS
from the USB, you may want to find out what your high water mark from your
squelch is when you key up your repeater and set the rxsquelch to just below
that.  People that use non motorola radios on my repeater have no issues
with squelch tail when I set it up that way.  I don't know what your using
for a repeater but my Quantar's work just fine setting it up that way.  I
use CTCSS from the Quantar instead of the software CTCSS from the software.

Paul

From: Ken <ke2n at cs.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:50:05 -1000
To: 'Lu Vencl' <vencl at att.net>, "bdboyle at bdboyle.com" <bdboyle at bdboyle.com>,
"app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org" <app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

What you are talking about is in usbradio.conf

txtoctype=notone     ; Transmit tone control type: no,phase,notone

                     ; no - CTCSS tone encoding with no hang time

                     ; phase - encode CTCSS and reverse phase 

                     ; AKA ("reverse burst") before unkeying TX

                     ; notone - encode CTCSS and stop sending tone before
unkeying TX

                     ; AKA ("chicken burst")

I use the "notone" option as you can see. 

I find that my Kenwood radio needs about 700 ms of hang time (from rpt.conf)
for the CTCSS squelch to close.

If you drop the carrier after that, there is no noise. Before that - and you
still  hear some squelch tail.

Ken

KE2N

From: app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org
[mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Lu Vencl
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:25 AM
To: bdboyle at bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

Hi Bryan.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I adjusted hangtime and all it does is extend the repeater hang time.

As for the reverse burst method,  it works great with radios that support is
like Motorola portables.

The problem is that the VX5-R does not support reverse burst.  The repeater
is a Motorola repeater, so I pulled the TX PL reed out and got excited about
the chicken burst option on the APP_RPT.. But it still gives me squelch
burst.. Like I said, I just need another 100 MS (200 to be safe) to make
this work..

Is this a parameter that cannot be tweaked?

If not, I can always build an external piece of hardware to add the
additional delay on the PTT. I just thought it might be easier to do this in
software.

Or I can simply wait for a future APP_RPT release that might have this
variable defined to help those with radios that need a little bit more time
in the CTCSS timeout sequence.

73

Lu, KA4EPS

From: app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org
[mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Bryan D. Boyle
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:12 AM
To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

On 7/13/11 7:02 AM, Lu Vencl wrote: 

Looking for the parameter and file (if not in rpt.conf) where I can tweak
the length of chicken burst. The current amount is not enough for my VX 5R..
I need another 200 MS to be effective.  

Thanks..

Lu

KA4EPS

Have you gone through and set your timeouts and such in rpt.conf?
Additionally...are you transmitting PL tones?  If you are, and you're not
depending on the radio hardware (ie you're doing all the audio processing in
Asterisk, and doing direct FM injection), you can try using reversing the
phase of the pl before carrier drop to quiet the end user receiver before
dropping RF carrier.  Old technique to quiet the receiver before dropping
carrier.

Getting all of these to work correctly is a balancing act between what the
radio can do, and how that coincides with how Asterisk views the world.  

Just some thoughts.

73 Bryan WB0YLE
Allstar 27294 27295 27673 27710 27774...:)

-- Bryan In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for
years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me. 

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