[App_rpt-users] DTMF number 3 Problem

[Bryan D. Boyle]

> On Mar 9, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Kirk Just Kirk <wb6egr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The $50 radios tend to suffer from "Twist" when sending touchtones. Some don't even have Pre/De on the transmit/receive audio!
>> Some manufactures think that 2Khz of deviation is OK, others think 6Khz is better.PL levels are all over the place too! I set my Motorola
>> stuff to 700Hz of PL deviation..seen some Baofengs doing 200Hz..another one was 1Khz of PL...
>> My though on this? set your system up with a REAL RADIO.Tell the ching-chong, bing bong (with eggroll) radio owners to GET THEM TUNED UP AND ALIGNED.....
>> Why butcher your system to accept their substandard emissions?

Thank you, Kirk...

<soapbox>
Which is part of the image problem we hams sometimes suffer 
from...accepting 'good enough' or hacking things together to 'just make 
it work' because the alternative is to hold cheap vendors' feet (or our 
fellow hams') feet to the fire to actually set things up the way that 
agreed-upon best practices have developed.

IMHO, and this is based on years of experience in the broadcast 
engineering, communications systems (telco, RF, and IP), and our 
hobby...it's the responsibility of the service provider (in this case, 
we repeater owners) to build a system that meets the standards of the 
service.  If the end user (ie cheap ham with a throw-away radio) is not 
able to use a standard-compliant system, it's NOT UP TO THE PROVIDER to 
degrade the common system to account for the junk that's trying to use 
it.  It's up to the end user to ensure compatibility...as long as the 
core system is doing what it's supposed to...no one likes to be told 
that their equipment is not working properly...but, if it isn't...then 
it isn't.  It's not personal.

Seems to me, whether it's either a young or long-in-the-tooth ham club, 
this is an opportunity for both a teaching moment and a chance to do a 
maintenance session.  Find someone with a good, compliant SM, sig gen, 
maybe a scope, set a time, and have a 'tune up' session at a common 
location.  Adjust deviation, PL injection, etc.  Teach WHY it's 
important that these things are done.  Show WHY when things are aligned 
properly the system works better.  Show HOW all the parameters interact. 
  Teach good procedure.  The results will be worth it.  We've shot 
ourselves in the foot with appliance radios (I offered, a couple years 
ago, to host anyone that wanted to use my second HF rig in the shack to 
do a multiple op session for a QSO party...the fact that my radios have 
the dreaded "tune" and "load" knobs kept all but the gray hairs 
away...most of the folks in the club had NEVER tuned a rig the way a 
deity intended...content with twisting in a frequency, pushing a 'tune' 
button, letting the relays chatter...and happily keying the mic...); but 
behind those appliances, there are still controls that need be set 
properly if it's expected that good results are attained.

You can't get around crappy design (no pre/de?  Yikes. Value engineering 
at its worst) or basic instability (I note, with amusement, that the 
Kenyaecom rigs never seem, as a whole, to have these problems ...but 
then, you DO get what you pay for...).  But, within the limits of these 
throw-aways, you can improve them just by opening them up, injecting a 
signal, and tweaking as needed (as long as you have the service 
manuals..) to bring them into compliance with the standards of our 
service.

Full disclosure: I own Alincos, Jetstreams, Wouxuns, Baofengs, 
Motorolas, Kenwoods, etc.  All of them have been opened on the bench, 
run through the SM drill, and work/sound just fine...I don't know anyone 
in my circle who has ever said anything other than 'those things sound 
great...'.  Heck, with a Wouxun KG1 @5W and an external triband antenna 
on my car, being fed with RG142, I was talking on a machine Thursday 
last from 40 miles away...machine in central NJ, me in and out of tree 
lines in Bucks Cnty PA on the other side of the Delaware...noisy, but 
100% copyable...which would not be the case if it hadn't been set up on 
the bench for deviation, PL level, frequency, and power).  So, it can be 
done.  Just takes a little time and effort...and my repeaters are set 
up, on the hardware side, with an SM and sig gen...the results speak for 
themselves.

I know we work on gentleman's agreements as to what compliance means. 
Doesn't mean we should not have, as a goal, doing the best we can. We 
bitch and moan when people deviate too far from good operating procedure 
on the air...we should except no less from expectations about how the 
equipment is working, either.

</soapbox>


-- 
Bryan WB0YLE
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant.
Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.
You may quote me.

Sent from my MacBook Pro.