[App_rpt-users] Fwd: COR signal getting confused

Sat Sep 27 04:15:03 UTC 2014

Doug, this behavior happens even if I manually toggle the COR independent
of the radio and audio so unless I'm not understanding, I can't see this
being the radio.

I tried changing unkeywait  to 1000 but made no difference other than
extending the time the PTT is active for the courtesy tone, and thus
extending the window in which the COR line going high will be ignored.
Seems that anything that extends the time that the PTT is active for the
courtesy tone also extends the time that the COR is ignored.

Just to make sure I'm not doing anything stupid or have an unconventional
setuo,. my test setup is:

HT -> DMK URI -> BBB (node 1998) -> ethernet -> Allstar on a VM (node 1620)
-> IAX -> Zioper soft phone on laptop

HT has audio in/out connected to the URI.  PTT from the URI is not
connected to the HT while testing.  Signal from receive LED on the HT goes
to COR URI input.

I have the HT tuned to the weather frequency and I'm making/breaking the
antenna connection to simulate picket fencing and I'm monitoring the audio
received by the URI/BBB on the softphone.

Bottom line is if the COR line drops, the courtesy pause and tone is
instantly triggered, triggering the URI PTT. This works.  But, if while the
PTT is active, the COR line goes high again, the audio through the URI is
not routed through until the COR line goes low* and high again after the
PTT/courtesy tone is done transmitting.

* when going low after getting ignored going high, no courtesy tone is
triggered.

Would it be useful/appropriate change carrierfrom to "no" and instead set
ctcssfrom = usb and switch the radio output to the ctcss input on the URI
and see if the problem still exists?

 Thanks for all the help!
-Mike

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Doug Crompton <doug at crompton.com> wrote:

> Mike,
>
>  You can try the changing the courtesy time wait then set back to duplex=1
>
> The wait-times section
> This section allows the wait times for voice responses and other audio
> telemetry events to be adjusted. All wait times are in milliseconds.
>
> *telemwait* sets the time before sending the general audio telemetry
> responses used in the application which are not specifically defined below
> *idwait* sets the time to wait before sending ID audio telemetry
> *unkeywait* sets the amount of time to wait before sending the courtesy
> tone. This can be used to ensure breaking stations can get their turn
> *calltermwait* sets the amount of time between an autopatch disconnect
> and the audio telemetry message indicating the call has been terminated
>
> The unkeywait is the one to mess with. It is 400ms on the BBB by default.
> Make it longer like 1000 so it spans the dropout period you are seeing.
> Experiment with times.
>
> If that doesn't work I really think you should try a different radio. My
> thoughts are that it is some kind of recovery issue with TX.
>
>
>
> *73 DougWA3DSPhttp://www.crompton.com/hamradio
> <http://www.crompton.com/hamradio>*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: kf7mbk at w7ara.net
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 18:59:26 -0700
>
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Fwd: COR signal getting confused
> To: doug at crompton.com
> CC: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>
> OK, so I did some more testing.
>
> I have routed the signal out of the radio to an NPN and switched from
> usbinvert to usb as suggested.  This made little difference, but in this
> configuration I could make the RC work a little better bridging the
> dropouts.  But still would end up not detecting carrier after a quick
> dropout even though the COR signal into the dongle was high.
>
> Duplex = 0 seems to eliminate the problem. Is there a setting to tell it
> how long to wait after COR dropped to start transmitting the courtesy tone?
> (though I suppose that would defeat the purpose of the duplex=1 setting)
>  Note that I have the PTT disconnected for testing, so all I see is the red
> LED come on as soon as the COR out of the radio drops.
>
> Actually as I'm typing this and playing with it, I just noticed it appears
> if the COR is restored ANY time the PTT is active for the courtesy tone, it
> will ignore the COR line until it's dropped and brought back up AFTER the
> PTT is done. This behavior seems VERY repeatable, even with a cleanly
> restored COR signal,  So it may have nothing to do with quick dropouts and
> everything to do with the courtesy tone..
>
> Are there any settings that control this?
>
> The LED on the radio (and hence my COR input)  is controlled by noise
> squelch opening.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Doug Crompton <doug at crompton.com> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
>  Are you using PL or noise squelch or both? Like I said I have not seen
> this problem and I am using basically stock timing. Every time the PL or
> squelch goes untrue for a certain (short) duration you should hear a
> courtesy tone. Perhpas you should try duplex=0 just to see if there is an
> issue with TX recovery.  Do you have another radio you can try?
>
>
>
> *73 DougWA3DSPhttp://www.crompton.com/hamradio
> <http://www.crompton.com/hamradio>*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: kf7mbk at w7ara.net
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:18:19 -0700
>
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Fwd: COR signal getting confused
> To: doug at crompton.com
> CC: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>
> The scope image in the OP shows there doesn't appear to be a problem with
> pulling hi or low,  The transitions (without the RC) are very clean and go
> all the way to ground..  It seems like the URI is doing edge detection
> instead of level detection, and it's just missing fast edges.  Wasn't sure
> if this was something that could be tweaked in software or if I'll have to
> put some external debounce logic on the line.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Doug Crompton <doug at crompton.com> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
>  Before you change any timing make sure as Jon pointed out that your COS
> signal is going hard high and low on signal and non-signal. You might need
> a pullup. The URI is kind of weak in that regard.  It should be TTL levels
> <.5 volt low and >2.5 volt high and preferably rail to rail.
>
>
>
>
> *73 DougWA3DSPhttp://www.crompton.com/hamradio
> <http://www.crompton.com/hamradio>*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: kf7mbk at w7ara.net
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 09:56:21 -0700
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Fwd: COR signal getting confused
> To: doug at crompton.com
> CC: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>
>
> Doug,
>
> First: thanks for the excellent writeup on getting allstar running on the
> BBB.  I used it to get up and running very quickly and is the setup I am
> having this issue with.
>
> I am running duplex =1 as well.  I have not changed any timing values,
> (I'm essentially running the as-installed setup from the install image on
> your site) but I will take a look at them and see if I can make some
> changes for the better.
>
> Thanks!
> -Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Doug Crompton <doug at crompton.com> wrote:
>
> ------------------------------
> From: doug at crompton.com
> To: kf7mbk at w7ara.net
> Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Fwd: COR signal getting confused
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:46:14 -0400
>
> That is very strange. Have you changed any of the default timing values?
> Are you using simplex/duplex? Courtesy tone? Timing values could effect
> that.
>
> I use simplex with courtesy tone (duplex=1 in rpt.conf)  on several nodes
> and I have never seen that problem. I have one user who has a signal like
> you describe. He walks in a park with a handheld and he is often in and out.
>
> Also I assume you are not using any rxdelay?
>
>
>
> *73 DougWA3DSPhttp://www.crompton.com/hamradio
> <http://www.crompton.com/hamradio>*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: kf7mbk at w7ara.net
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:50:51 -0700
> To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> Subject: [App_rpt-users] Fwd: COR signal getting confused
>
>
> Resending since my initial post has been pending moderation for 2 days now
> and got no reply from the list owner email.
>
> I have modified an HT to bring out the receive LED signal and use it
> as the COR input to a DMK URI. It is a digital signal as viewed on a
> scope (i.e. very short slope in the transitions)  This seems like it
> would work well and it does on strong signals. But on marginal signals
> where the LED may blink on and off quickly (like during picket
> fencing), it seems to confuse the URI (or the software) were it will
> start off good, but then a quick dropout of the COR signal will cause
> the software to no longer detect carrier, even though the signal on
> the COR input has been restored.  Even if the input is solid high (or
> low in my case, I'm using usbinvert) it will not detect a carrier
> until there is another dropout of adequate time to "reset" it.
>
> I've tried putting a simple RC on the input but it didn't really help
> much.  Seems the URI (or software) needs a significant minimum time
> between transitions to properly detect them, long enough that it would
> delay the carrier detection too much without a circuit more complex
> than an RC (i.e. something that would allow instant keyup, but delay
> the key down.)
>
> Linked is a scope image.
>
>
> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CsJ9autUTAE/VCWK-uNJJpI/AAAAAAAAPSM/VsVvbPVvuEA/s800/20140923_184107.jpg
>
> Carrier was detected until this signal
> dropout event.  Ch A is my RC filtered signal sent to the URI, Ch B is
> the signal out of the radio.  Carrier was not detected after the 5th
> dropout even though the signal remained low.
>
> Anyone ever experience this and/or have ideas on how to fix it?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike
> KF7MBK
>
>
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