[App_rpt-users] App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16

[Jeff Carrier]

The RTCM and simulcast DOES work.  As mentioned before, you have to be
using a transmitter that can accept a 10 mHz (or whatever) reference
signal.  You also need 1 PPS for your receivers and transmitter.  You also
need to sync the RTCM to your GPSDO (which I have not done).  If you have
not done all this you WILL hear some "funk" in the overlap areas.

That "funk" can go from usable to un-usable depending on how strong the
transmitters are in the overlap region.

Pardon the "non-technical" terms.  It does work but the law of physics do
apply here.

de K0JSC

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 9:54 AM, <app_rpt-users-request at ohnosec.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: audio for direct VCO FM (Joe Leikhim) (Steve Wright)
>    2. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Steve Wright)
>    3. Re: audio for direct VCO FM: Si5351B (David McGough)
>    4. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Joe Moskalski)
>    5. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (David McGough)
>    6. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Joe Moskalski)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:40:50 +1200
> From: Steve Wright <info at meshnetworks.co.nz>
> To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio for direct VCO FM (Joe Leikhim)
> Message-ID: <57552902.9070008 at meshnetworks.co.nz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> On 04/06/16 04:00, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite at leikhim.com> wrote:
> > Assuming the VCO is part of a PLL, the PLL will tend to "correct" the
> > modulation, [....]
>
> Was planning to use the Si5351B - has VCO input.
>
> S
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 20:22:36 +1200
> From: Steve Wright <info at meshnetworks.co.nz>
> To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
> Message-ID: <575532CC.2020304 at meshnetworks.co.nz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I will be setting up a 2 site UHF simulcast system in the coming months
>
> Huh?  I was told (on this list) that simulcast TX "doesn't work".
>
>
>
> S
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:46:38 -0400 (EDT)
> From: David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
> To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio for direct VCO FM: Si5351B
> Message-ID:
>         <Pine.LNX.4.44.1606060946450.4196-100000 at goliath.inttek.net>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> We're getting way off topic for the mailing list, but, I thought I'd post
> this reply here if there are any other interested hams out there, perhaps
> who are also experimenting in this area.
>
> I haven't played with the Si5351B version of this interesting chip, yet. I
> wonder whether the voltage control input of this chip would be suitable
> for AF FM modulation? Assuming that you could modulate the VCXO at audio
> frequencies (the datasheet isn't completely clear to me about that), an
> immediate issue would be that everytime you change the fractional-N
> division ratio, you'll change the modulation index. This will have to be
> compensated for, one way or another.
>
> I've been playing with several boards with Si5351 chips. They're pretty
> neat. They're also pretty noisy! ...With both spurious and phase noise.
> The phase noise can be improved somewhat with a better external crystal
> oscillator, the spurs seem more challenging.  Using the on-board VCXO with
> the 5351B, you can't use a high quality external oscillator, so phase
> noise and overall frequency stability could be an issue, too.
>
> Anyhow, for my applications, I'm following the Si5351 with a secondary
> clean-up VCO/PLL, which was already in the radios. I just needed a
> frequency-agile reference oscillator, so to speak. I think the Si5351 will
> work well for this, based on my preliminary tests! (I'd certainly like to
> hear the experiences from anyone who has already been down this road!)
>
> I guess you're not finding any local sources of surplus radios?  Do you
> have any 6m power amps available?
>
>
> 73, David KB4FXC
>
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Steve Wright wrote:
>
> > On 04/06/16 04:00, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite at leikhim.com> wrote:
> > > Assuming the VCO is part of a PLL, the PLL will tend to "correct" the
> > > modulation, [....]
> >
> > Was planning to use the Si5351B - has VCO input.
> >
> > S
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:03:11 -0400
> From: Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com>
> To: App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
> Message-ID:
>         <CAES28qxB06niu+nL4Y5QfUvgZFf-y8s=
> uZdH2afzxKnwr0HV+w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properly with the RTCM
> > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a device available to
> > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from the GPSDO or does
> > anyone have a schematic available so that I can build them myself?
> >
> >
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
> >
> Virus-free.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:36:01 -0400 (EDT)
> From: David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
> To: App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
> Message-ID:
>         <Pine.LNX.4.44.1606061122550.4196-100000 at goliath.inttek.net>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> While on the subject of the Si5351 chips, the application of converting
> one reference clock to a secondary frequency is what they were designed
> for. So, since you've already got a GPS reference, this -might- be an
> inexpensive starting point...For this application, you obviously won't
> need all the bells and whistles presented in this article! See:
>
> http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf
> http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus
>
> Note that I would replace the Si5351 25MHz reference with a decent TCXO
> (available on ebay, etc.)....Note that I haven't used the Si5351 with an
> RTCM, there may be simpler/better ways???
>
>
> 73, David KB4FXC
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:
>
> > > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properly with the
> RTCM
> > > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a device available
> to
> > > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from the GPSDO or
> does
> > > anyone have a schematic available so that I can build them myself?
> > >
> > >
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
> >
> > Virus-free.
> > www.avast.com
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
> >
> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:54:11 -0400
> From: Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com>
> To: David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
> Cc: App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAES28qx-G3wytTXKMRVvzMNm+498_c-aeNB6JrTWmZOR7A7ZcA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I mentioned this to someone else, QRP Labs has a kit that creates a OCXO
> around the Si5351 chip. here is the link:
>
> http://www.qrp-labs.com/ocxokit.html
>
> If you couple this with another kit of theirs you can program it it any
> frequency you want. My only thought is would it be accurate/stable enough.
>
> http://www.qrp-labs.com/progrock.html
>
>
>
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
> >
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
> >
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 11:36 AM, David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Joe,
> >
> > While on the subject of the Si5351 chips, the application of converting
> > one reference clock to a secondary frequency is what they were designed
> > for. So, since you've already got a GPS reference, this -might- be an
> > inexpensive starting point...For this application, you obviously won't
> > need all the bells and whistles presented in this article! See:
> >
> > http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf
> > http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus
> >
> > Note that I would replace the Si5351 25MHz reference with a decent TCXO
> > (available on ebay, etc.)....Note that I haven't used the Si5351 with an
> > RTCM, there may be simpler/better ways???
> >
> >
> > 73, David KB4FXC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:
> >
> > > > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properly with the
> > RTCM
> > > > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a device
> available
> > to
> > > > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from the GPSDO or
> > does
> > > > anyone have a schematic available so that I can build them myself?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > <
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
> > >
> > > Virus-free.
> > > www.avast.com
> > > <
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
> > >
> > > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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