[App_rpt-users] Reliability / Network Stability

Tue Jun 27 17:14:24 UTC 2017

Most core and edge routers (most notably Cisco devices) provide priority to
regular packet forwarding.  An ICMP reply is given much lower priority.  As
a result, you can't rely on the ICMP information provided by these devices
under test as being accurate.  David is absolutely correct with his
statements.  I've personally seen Cisco routers indicate ~10% packet loss
while doing a ping test, but with forwarded packets being unaffected at 0%
loss.

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Loren Tedford <lorentedford at gmail.com>
wrote:

> That's great David however most people don't want to spend the time and
> energy into getting a pfsense box and fighting with their provider unless
> they can get reasonable idea of what is going on the network side of
> things.. I agree ping's packet loss isn't everything but I have found that
> mtr is still good basic for individuals looking to trouble shooting network
> issues..
>
> I can't help what providers block out on their end of the network..
> However ping times and percentage of packet loss is a good start just to
> get an idea..
>
> I am sorry i didn't add nothing is perfect..
>
> So in curiosity side in the linux world what tool would you use to
> diagnose your connections?? This is assuming you already use ping commands
> and netstat commands etc..
>
> Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV)
> Phone:
> Fax:
> Email: lorentedford at gmail.com
> Email: KC9ZHV at KC9ZHV.com
> http://www.lorentedford.com
> http://www.kc9zhv.com
> http://forum.kc9zhv.com
> http://hub.kc9zhv.com
> http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/>
> http://voipham.com
>
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:45 AM, David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Just a comment about using mtr or other tools that attempt to show packet
>> loss to various ISP core or edge routers--this really does NOT give an
>> accurate picture, in many cases, particularly for latency....The job of
>> these routers is to forward traffic, not respond to pings.
>>
>> ...And, I am an ISP with core and edge routers.
>>
>> 73, David KB4FXC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Loren Tedford wrote:
>>
>> > Sounds good Bryan! Also special shout out to the rest of the team as
>> well..
>> > I think i might have an idea what maybe going on in regards to your
>> > question Benjamin.. I have recently noticed heavier than normal latency
>> on
>> > the iax ports I am not sure if service providers are doing some funny
>> > business with 4569 or what.. But what i recommend is if your having
>> > connectivity issues download mtr on to your allstarlink node..  You can
>> > install it by typing apt-get install mtr then use this command as an
>> > example mtr -rwc 100 ip-p-host-Address
>> >
>> > example command would be:
>> > mtr -rwc 100 lorentedford.com
>> >
>> > Now this will show you percentages of packet loss for each hop this is
>> > generally a good place to start in troubleshooting if your having
>> issues..
>> >
>> > Providing the output of the above can be very useful and assist others
>> in
>> > seeing what type of network congestion is going on where around the
>> > country.. In the future some of us might have to look into consistent
>> VPN
>> > services between major hubs to maintain stable connectivity and
>> routing..
>> > Examples being multiple hub systems where you have geographically
>> located
>> > allstarlink hubs around the world..
>> >
>> > Just a thought
>> >
>> > Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV)
>> > Phone:
>> > Fax:
>> > Email: lorentedford at gmail.com
>> > Email: KC9ZHV at KC9ZHV.com
>> > http://www.lorentedford.com
>> > http://www.kc9zhv.com
>> > http://forum.kc9zhv.com
>> > http://hub.kc9zhv.com
>> > http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/>
>> > http://voipham.com
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Bryan Fields <Bryan at bryanfields.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > On 6/26/17 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote:
>> > > > Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there
>> have
>> > > > been some issues with allstarlink.
>> > > >
>> > > > Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are
>> radanomly
>> > > > dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment.
>> > > > All without apparent cause.
>> > >
>> > > When and where?
>> > >
>> > > Allstarlink.org is and has been online and stable for some time.
>> > >
>> > > Docs.allstarlink.org had a network outage recently due to a dead
>> switch.
>> > > It
>> > > was rectified about 5-6 hours later by our network vendor.
>> > >
>> > > > Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in
>> > > > this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone.
>> Some of
>> > > > our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the
>> rpt.conf,
>> > > > and those connections worked fine.
>> > >
>> > > Again, when and where?  Connections from node to node are direct, the
>> only
>> > > thing ASL does is build a database and push that to the nodes every 10
>> > > mins or
>> > > so.
>> > >
>> > > If your nodes are listed as online, but they cannot talk, there is a
>> > > network
>> > > issue unrelated to ASL.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one,
>> there
>> > > > is an issue.
>> > >
>> > > This sort of "error" report is lacking.  You would need to give the
>> errors,
>> > > dates/times, source node IP and AS path if you can provide that.
>> > >
>> > > > All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the
>> > > > possibility of ISP issue.
>> > >
>> > > No, it makes it less likely, but it in no way rules it out.  Are you
>> doing
>> > > NAT
>> > > or is each node on it's own IP?
>> > >
>> > > > Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they
>> have
>> > > > noticed similar issues.
>> > >
>> > > This is nothing but scuttlebutt without evidence.
>> > >
>> > > > Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
>> > >
>> > > In the last 6 months ASL has lost Jim Dixon, formally incorporated as
>> a
>> > > non-profit organization and been forced to document a number of things
>> > > which
>> > > Jim had in his head.
>> > >
>> > > "The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
>> > >
>> > > We had to identify the ASL infrastructure, which was spread out over a
>> > > number
>> > > of different locations.  We've done this and have access to
>> everything, and
>> > > backups in case anything fails.  We've assembled an infrastructure
>> team and
>> > > have an architecture we're building into (docker).  Over the next few
>> > > months
>> > > we're going to move servers one by one into this environment.
>> > >
>> > > The mailing lists have been moved to a high performance server with
>> real
>> > > spam
>> > > filtering.  Nagios is watching everything and we know in 5-10 minutes
>> when
>> > > there is an outage of a service.
>> > >
>> > > This is a huge undertaking.
>> > >
>> > > Tim's working on a new website, and Steve's been running everything
>> else
>> > > including development.  Oh, and all the source code is on github now
>> too.
>> > >
>> > > If there's network issues we _want_ to know about them, but it must
>> be in a
>> > > detailed manner.  I've responded to people on reddit and said to post
>> > > details
>> > > over on this list.  Without detailed logs and reports we cannot do
>> > > anything to
>> > > confirm them.
>> > >
>> > > 73's
>> > > --
>> > > Bryan Fields
>> > >
>> > > 727-409-1194 - Voice
>> > > http://bryanfields.net
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > App_rpt-users mailing list
>> > > App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> > > http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>> > >
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>> > >
>> >
>>
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-- 
Andrew Sylthe
KC9ONA
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