From luvencl8 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 20:47:10 2019
From: luvencl8 at gmail.com (Lu V)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 15:47:10 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] ASL menu bug when changing USB type
Message-ID: <D78793C8-B059-4F97-B9EC-48691725A1F3@gmail.com>

Hello, I tried  my first raspberry pie and when I installed from ASL menu, I selected accidentally simple USB instead of radio USB. I went back into the menu and tried to change the drivers to radio USB but it looks like it is not modifying properly? 
I did find in modules.CONF where it was still loading simple USB. I made the appropriate changes (no load in front of sinple usb and load in front of usb radio  but I still cannot run radio-tune-menu. 
Just wanted to point it out because I think it might be a bug. Has anyone else experienced this?
Any tips on how to get this going before I start from scratch?

Lu Vencl
KA4EPS

From nhardman1428 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  2 02:17:07 2019
From: nhardman1428 at gmail.com (Nate Hardman)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:17:07 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] ASL menu bug when changing USB type
In-Reply-To: <D78793C8-B059-4F97-B9EC-48691725A1F3@gmail.com>
References: <D78793C8-B059-4F97-B9EC-48691725A1F3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC9hojWr-b=4rASRZgW4_8Pddp82kUC=1nH+UC-vmbq8saNuLw@mail.gmail.com>

Please check your /etc/asterisk/rpt.conf and make sure your have rxchannel
= radio/USB_NODE-NUMBER and NOT rxchannel = SimpleUSB/usb_NODE-NUMBER  if
using the USBRadio channel driver.  Also make sure your have the file
/etc/asterisk/usbradio_tune_usb_YOUR-NODENUMBER.conf  configured also. if
you are editing the files manually.



On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 3:47 PM Lu V <luvencl8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, I tried  my first raspberry pie and when I installed from ASL menu,
> I selected accidentally simple USB instead of radio USB. I went back into
> the menu and tried to change the drivers to radio USB but it looks like it
> is not modifying properly?
> I did find in modules.CONF where it was still loading simple USB. I made
> the appropriate changes (no load in front of sinple usb and load in front
> of usb radio  but I still cannot run radio-tune-menu.
> Just wanted to point it out because I think it might be a bug. Has anyone
> else experienced this?
> Any tips on how to get this going before I start from scratch?
>
> Lu Vencl
> KA4EPS
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
>


-- 

Nathan Hardman
nhardman1428 at gmail.com
N8THN at ARRL.NET
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From luvencl8 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  2 02:58:13 2019
From: luvencl8 at gmail.com (Lu V)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:58:13 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] ASL menu bug when changing USB type
In-Reply-To: <CAC9hojWr-b=4rASRZgW4_8Pddp82kUC=1nH+UC-vmbq8saNuLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D78793C8-B059-4F97-B9EC-48691725A1F3@gmail.com>
 <CAC9hojWr-b=4rASRZgW4_8Pddp82kUC=1nH+UC-vmbq8saNuLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C8C853A9-AD16-456F-B341-935AC50DADF8@gmail.com>

Thanks. I got it going by manually editing it. I was merely pointing out a bug in the ASL menu driven functionality in case someone wants to take a look. 
Lu Vencl

> On Feb 1, 2019, at 9:17 PM, Nate Hardman <nhardman1428 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Please check your /etc/asterisk/rpt.conf and make sure your have rxchannel = radio/USB_NODE-NUMBER and NOT rxchannel = SimpleUSB/usb_NODE-NUMBER  if using the USBRadio channel driver.  Also make sure your have the file /etc/asterisk/usbradio_tune_usb_YOUR-NODENUMBER.conf  configured also. if you are editing the files manually.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 3:47 PM Lu V <luvencl8 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello, I tried  my first raspberry pie and when I installed from ASL menu, I selected accidentally simple USB instead of radio USB. I went back into the menu and tried to change the drivers to radio USB but it looks like it is not modifying properly? 
>> I did find in modules.CONF where it was still loading simple USB. I made the appropriate changes (no load in front of sinple usb and load in front of usb radio  but I still cannot run radio-tune-menu. 
>> Just wanted to point it out because I think it might be a bug. Has anyone else experienced this?
>> Any tips on how to get this going before I start from scratch?
>> 
>> Lu Vencl
>> KA4EPS
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Nathan Hardman
> nhardman1428 at gmail.com
> N8THN at ARRL.NET
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
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From hk4km at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 13:07:37 2019
From: hk4km at yahoo.com (Guillermo Sobalvarro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 13:07:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Upgrade problem
References: <1179825143.2869722.1549285657914.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1179825143.2869722.1549285657914@mail.yahoo.com>

I recently managed to get ASL to work on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the Allstarlink ASL_1.01-20180228-armhf-raspbian-stretch-image.
I wanted a radio-less setup and use a DVSwitch IAX client for ASL and a DMR radio to my talkgroup.

Then I configured and got ASL to DMR working perfectly. 

Today I did and apt-get update and apt-get upgrade.? The result was that Asterisk stopped working.? Last few linkes of asterisk startup are:
??? -- rpt (Rx) initiating call to USRP/127.0.0.1 on usrp/127.0.0.1:34001
[Feb? 4 07:48:35] WARNING[861]: chan_dahdi.c:928 dahdi_open: Unable to open '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
[Feb? 4 07:48:35] ERROR[861]: chan_dahdi.c:7906 chandup: Unable to dup channel: No such file or directory
rpt:Sorry unable to obtain pseudo channel
[Feb? 4 07:48:35] WARNING[862]: chan_dahdi.c:928 dahdi_open: Unable to open '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
[Feb? 4 07:48:35] ERROR[862]: chan_dahdi.c:7906 chandup: Unable to dup channel: No such file or directory
rpt:Sorry unable to obtain Rx channel
[Feb? 4 07:48:37] ERROR[828]: app_rpt.c:22223 rpt_master: Continual RPT thread restarts, killing Asterisk



Is there a way to get this back to how it was so I don't have to do a total wipe and start from scratch again?? Right now it looks to me as if I get a node running I can't ever upgrade anything.
Thanks in advance.
Guillermo - HK4KM
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From Bryan at bryanfields.net  Mon Feb  4 13:48:15 2019
From: Bryan at bryanfields.net (Bryan Fields)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 08:48:15 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Upgrade problem
In-Reply-To: <1179825143.2869722.1549285657914@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1179825143.2869722.1549285657914.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1179825143.2869722.1549285657914@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43cc8351-eeb9-a898-bc91-6e3064766192@bryanfields.net>


On 2/4/19 8:07 AM, Guillermo Sobalvarro wrote:
> I recently managed to get ASL to work on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the Allstarlink ASL_1.01-20180228-armhf-raspbian-stretch-image.
> I wanted a radio-less setup and use a DVSwitch IAX client for ASL and a DMR radio to my talkgroup.
> > I recently managed to get ASL to work on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the
> Allstarlink ASL_1.01-20180228-armhf-raspbian-stretch-image.
> I wanted a radio-less setup and use a DVSwitch IAX client for ASL and a
> DMR radio to my talkgroup.
> Then I configured and got ASL to DMR working perfectly. 
> 
> Today I did and apt-get update and apt-get upgrade.? The result was that Asterisk stopped working.? Last few linkes of asterisk startup are:
> ??? -- rpt (Rx) initiating call to USRP/127.0.0.1 on usrp/127.0.0.1:34001
> [Feb? 4 07:48:35] WARNING[861]: chan_dahdi.c:928 dahdi_open: Unable to open '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
> [Feb? 4 07:48:35] ERROR[861]: chan_dahdi.c:7906 chandup: Unable to dup channel: No such file or directory
> rpt:Sorry unable to obtain pseudo channel

Looks like dahdi is not installed.  Did you upgrade the kernel or hold it back?

sudo apt-mark hold raspberrypi-kernel-headers raspberrypi-kernel
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade -y


73's
-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net


From hk4km at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  5 12:56:17 2019
From: hk4km at yahoo.com (Guillermo Sobalvarro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 12:56:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Upgrade problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1549368002.7437.app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org>
References: <mailman.1.1549368002.7437.app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org>
Message-ID: <1968676786.3573749.1549371377419@mail.yahoo.com>

 Thanks Bryan.
No I did not hold anything back and just went with apt-get upgrade.? That clobbered everything.
Will look into what you suggest for the apt-get process.? I'm new at this so... 

Did a comlete install from scratch but with no apt-get upgrade, just update.? It is working ok.
I did the ASL to DMR bit and it also works but I have very scratchy audio from DMR to ASL.
Thanks for your reply.
73 de Guillermo - HK4KM

    On Tuesday, February 5, 2019, 7:00:10 AM GMT-5, app_rpt-users-request at lists.allstarlink.org <app_rpt-users-request at lists.allstarlink.org> wrote:  
 
 
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 08:48:15 -0500
From: Bryan Fields <Bryan at bryanfields.net>
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Upgrade problem
Message-ID: <43cc8351-eeb9-a898-bc91-6e3064766192 at bryanfields.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8


On 2/4/19 8:07 AM, Guillermo Sobalvarro wrote:
> I recently managed to get ASL to work on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the Allstarlink ASL_1.01-20180228-armhf-raspbian-stretch-image.
> I wanted a radio-less setup and use a DVSwitch IAX client for ASL and a DMR radio to my talkgroup.
> > I recently managed to get ASL to work on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the
> Allstarlink ASL_1.01-20180228-armhf-raspbian-stretch-image.
> I wanted a radio-less setup and use a DVSwitch IAX client for ASL and a
> DMR radio to my talkgroup.
> Then I configured and got ASL to DMR working perfectly. 
> 
> Today I did and apt-get update and apt-get upgrade.? The result was that Asterisk stopped working.? Last few linkes of asterisk startup are:
> ??? -- rpt (Rx) initiating call to USRP/127.0.0.1 on usrp/127.0.0.1:34001
> [Feb? 4 07:48:35] WARNING[861]: chan_dahdi.c:928 dahdi_open: Unable to open '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
> [Feb? 4 07:48:35] ERROR[861]: chan_dahdi.c:7906 chandup: Unable to dup channel: No such file or directory
> rpt:Sorry unable to obtain pseudo channel

Looks like dahdi is not installed.? Did you upgrade the kernel or hold it back?

sudo apt-mark hold raspberrypi-kernel-headers raspberrypi-kernel
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade -y


73's
-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net


------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users


------------------------------

End of App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 120, Issue 3
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From russell at kv4s.com  Tue Feb  5 19:41:50 2019
From: russell at kv4s.com (Russell Thomas)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 13:41:50 -0600
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Upgrade problem
In-Reply-To: <1968676786.3573749.1549371377419@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1549368002.7437.app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org>
 <1968676786.3573749.1549371377419@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAANUOmHNjgRWqStSonF8=FkcC5LQsjz9+6eZgX4UvJeeYkwU1g@mail.gmail.com>

I just did the same thing.

i tried to run asterisk in the foreground and got this:
bash: cd: /var/run/astersik.ctl: No such file or directory


asterisk logs:
[Feb  5 12:24:03] WARNING[955] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to open
'/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
[Feb  5 12:24:03] ERROR[955] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to dup channel: No such
file or directory
[Feb  5 12:24:03] WARNING[958] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to open
'/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
[Feb  5 12:24:03] ERROR[958] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to dup channel: No such
file or directory
[Feb  5 12:24:03] WARNING[957] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to open
'/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
[Feb  5 12:24:03] ERROR[957] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to dup channel: No such
file or directory
[Feb  5 12:24:03] WARNING[956] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to open
'/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
[Feb  5 12:24:03] ERROR[956] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to dup channel: No such
file or directory


73,
Russell Thomas, KV4S
Cell: 205.202.1701
Web: http://KV4S.com


On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 6:56 AM Guillermo Sobalvarro <hk4km at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks Bryan.
>
> No I did not hold anything back and just went with apt-get upgrade.  That
> clobbered everything.
>
> Will look into what you suggest for the apt-get process.  I'm new at this
> so...
>
> Did a comlete install from scratch but with no apt-get upgrade, just
> update.  It is working ok.
>
> I did the ASL to DMR bit and it also works but I have very scratchy audio
> from DMR to ASL.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> 73 de Guillermo - HK4KM
>
> On Tuesday, February 5, 2019, 7:00:10 AM GMT-5,
> app_rpt-users-request at lists.allstarlink.org <
> app_rpt-users-request at lists.allstarlink.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 08:48:15 -0500
> From: Bryan Fields <Bryan at bryanfields.net>
> To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Upgrade problem
> Message-ID: <43cc8351-eeb9-a898-bc91-6e3064766192 at bryanfields.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> On 2/4/19 8:07 AM, Guillermo Sobalvarro wrote:
> > I recently managed to get ASL to work on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the
> Allstarlink ASL_1.01-20180228-armhf-raspbian-stretch-image.
> > I wanted a radio-less setup and use a DVSwitch IAX client for ASL and a
> DMR radio to my talkgroup.
> > > I recently managed to get ASL to work on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the
> > Allstarlink ASL_1.01-20180228-armhf-raspbian-stretch-image.
> > I wanted a radio-less setup and use a DVSwitch IAX client for ASL and a
> > DMR radio to my talkgroup.
> > Then I configured and got ASL to DMR working perfectly.
> >
> > Today I did and apt-get update and apt-get upgrade.? The result was that
> Asterisk stopped working.? Last few linkes of asterisk startup are:
> > ??? -- rpt (Rx) initiating call to USRP/127.0.0.1 on usrp/
> 127.0.0.1:34001
> > [Feb? 4 07:48:35] WARNING[861]: chan_dahdi.c:928 dahdi_open: Unable to
> open '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
> > [Feb? 4 07:48:35] ERROR[861]: chan_dahdi.c:7906 chandup: Unable to dup
> channel: No such file or directory
> > rpt:Sorry unable to obtain pseudo channel
>
> Looks like dahdi is not installed.  Did you upgrade the kernel or hold it
> back?
>
> sudo apt-mark hold raspberrypi-kernel-headers raspberrypi-kernel
> sudo apt-get update
> sudo apt-get upgrade -y
>
>
> 73's
> --
> Bryan Fields
>
> 727-409-1194 - Voice
> http://bryanfields.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 120, Issue 3
> *********************************************
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
>
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From russell at kv4s.com  Tue Feb  5 19:47:55 2019
From: russell at kv4s.com (Russell Thomas)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 13:47:55 -0600
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Upgrade problem
In-Reply-To: <CAANUOmHNjgRWqStSonF8=FkcC5LQsjz9+6eZgX4UvJeeYkwU1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1549368002.7437.app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org>
 <1968676786.3573749.1549371377419@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAANUOmHNjgRWqStSonF8=FkcC5LQsjz9+6eZgX4UvJeeYkwU1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAANUOmF==7HmDd0B0FYipjgg2PnwqSmRwj8OoEG1skDkKG71KA@mail.gmail.com>

I ran this how to from ASL and it appears to have fixed the problem.
https://wiki.allstarlink.org/wiki/DAHDI_Make


73,
Russell Thomas, KV4S
Cell: 205.202.1701
Web: http://KV4S.com


On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:41 PM Russell Thomas <russell at kv4s.com> wrote:

> I just did the same thing.
>
> i tried to run asterisk in the foreground and got this:
> bash: cd: /var/run/astersik.ctl: No such file or directory
>
>
> asterisk logs:
> [Feb  5 12:24:03] WARNING[955] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to open
> '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
> [Feb  5 12:24:03] ERROR[955] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to dup channel: No such
> file or directory
> [Feb  5 12:24:03] WARNING[958] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to open
> '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
> [Feb  5 12:24:03] ERROR[958] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to dup channel: No such
> file or directory
> [Feb  5 12:24:03] WARNING[957] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to open
> '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
> [Feb  5 12:24:03] ERROR[957] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to dup channel: No such
> file or directory
> [Feb  5 12:24:03] WARNING[956] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to open
> '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
> [Feb  5 12:24:03] ERROR[956] chan_dahdi.c: Unable to dup channel: No such
> file or directory
>
>
> 73,
> Russell Thomas, KV4S
> Cell: 205.202.1701
> Web: http://KV4S.com
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 6:56 AM Guillermo Sobalvarro <hk4km at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Bryan.
>>
>> No I did not hold anything back and just went with apt-get upgrade.  That
>> clobbered everything.
>>
>> Will look into what you suggest for the apt-get process.  I'm new at this
>> so...
>>
>> Did a comlete install from scratch but with no apt-get upgrade, just
>> update.  It is working ok.
>>
>> I did the ASL to DMR bit and it also works but I have very scratchy audio
>> from DMR to ASL.
>>
>> Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> 73 de Guillermo - HK4KM
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 5, 2019, 7:00:10 AM GMT-5,
>> app_rpt-users-request at lists.allstarlink.org <
>> app_rpt-users-request at lists.allstarlink.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 08:48:15 -0500
>> From: Bryan Fields <Bryan at bryanfields.net>
>> To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Upgrade problem
>> Message-ID: <43cc8351-eeb9-a898-bc91-6e3064766192 at bryanfields.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>
>> On 2/4/19 8:07 AM, Guillermo Sobalvarro wrote:
>> > I recently managed to get ASL to work on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the
>> Allstarlink ASL_1.01-20180228-armhf-raspbian-stretch-image.
>> > I wanted a radio-less setup and use a DVSwitch IAX client for ASL and a
>> DMR radio to my talkgroup.
>> > > I recently managed to get ASL to work on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the
>> > Allstarlink ASL_1.01-20180228-armhf-raspbian-stretch-image.
>> > I wanted a radio-less setup and use a DVSwitch IAX client for ASL and a
>> > DMR radio to my talkgroup.
>> > Then I configured and got ASL to DMR working perfectly.
>> >
>> > Today I did and apt-get update and apt-get upgrade.? The result was
>> that Asterisk stopped working.? Last few linkes of asterisk startup are:
>> > ??? -- rpt (Rx) initiating call to USRP/127.0.0.1 on usrp/
>> 127.0.0.1:34001
>> > [Feb? 4 07:48:35] WARNING[861]: chan_dahdi.c:928 dahdi_open: Unable to
>> open '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
>> > [Feb? 4 07:48:35] ERROR[861]: chan_dahdi.c:7906 chandup: Unable to dup
>> channel: No such file or directory
>> > rpt:Sorry unable to obtain pseudo channel
>>
>> Looks like dahdi is not installed.  Did you upgrade the kernel or hold it
>> back?
>>
>> sudo apt-mark hold raspberrypi-kernel-headers raspberrypi-kernel
>> sudo apt-get update
>> sudo apt-get upgrade -y
>>
>>
>> 73's
>> --
>> Bryan Fields
>>
>> 727-409-1194 - Voice
>> http://bryanfields.net
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 120, Issue 3
>> *********************************************
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
>> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
>> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
>> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
>> the list detailing the problem.
>>
>
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From nessenj at jimsoffice.org  Tue Feb  5 23:33:29 2019
From: nessenj at jimsoffice.org (Jim Nessen)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 23:33:29 +0000
Subject: [App_rpt-users] RIM-Maxtrac interface for sale
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR1301MB2126499EBA7F454460DD07DDD96E0@MWHPR1301MB2126.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR1301MB2126499EBA7F454460DD07DDD96E0@MWHPR1301MB2126.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR1301MB21260FAEABE228A7097BEA69D96E0@MWHPR1301MB2126.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

I have a RIM-Maxtrac interface (http://www.repeater-builder.com/products/usb-rim-lite.html) for sale.  This interface is specifically made to interface with the Motorola Maxtrac/Radius/GM300 line of radios.  (see the link for a photo of the interface).  I am asking 50.00 (that price includes shipping to the US only via USPS priority mail).

Please email me off list if you are interested.

Thanks!

Jim, K6JWN
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From nessenj at jimsoffice.org  Wed Feb  6 04:30:46 2019
From: nessenj at jimsoffice.org (Jim Nessen)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 04:30:46 +0000
Subject: [App_rpt-users] RIM-Maxtrac interface for sale
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR1301MB21260FAEABE228A7097BEA69D96E0@MWHPR1301MB2126.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR1301MB2126499EBA7F454460DD07DDD96E0@MWHPR1301MB2126.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <MWHPR1301MB21260FAEABE228A7097BEA69D96E0@MWHPR1301MB2126.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR1301MB2126164E9C90D2EF34507ED8D96F0@MWHPR1301MB2126.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

The interface has been sold.

Thanks!

Jim, K6JWN

From: App_rpt-users <app_rpt-users-bounces at lists.allstarlink.org> On Behalf Of Jim Nessen
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 3:33 PM
To: app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
Subject: [App_rpt-users] RIM-Maxtrac interface for sale

Hi,

I have a RIM-Maxtrac interface (http://www.repeater-builder.com/products/usb-rim-lite.html) for sale.  This interface is specifically made to interface with the Motorola Maxtrac/Radius/GM300 line of radios.  (see the link for a photo of the interface).  I am asking 50.00 (that price includes shipping to the US only via USPS priority mail).

Please email me off list if you are interested.

Thanks!

Jim, K6JWN
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From va2xjm at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 19:23:56 2019
From: va2xjm at gmail.com (Jean-Michel Vien - VA2XJM)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 14:23:56 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Questions about ASL capabilities when internet is
 down
Message-ID: <a865f453-98b8-c41f-ceb4-7f75d68f665e@gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I guess those questions has been asked before, but I found no efficient
way to search past posts from the mailing list (and I must admit I
prefer forums over a mailing list that I usually avoid).

So we are a small group wishing to deploy an amateur network of analog
and fusion repeater along with other features like phonepatch. I play
with AREDN at the moment and we plan to use that to inter-connect our
sites over a 5Ghz WISP network (kind of like wifi). It allows us to
bring internet to each site and open up a lots of possibility (VoIP
network, network camera, remote access to control devices, emails... all
that over a single link).

I actually know nothing about Asterisk/ASL. I just downloaded ASL, I
plan to start reading docs as soon as the baby goes to nap (and I feels
he won't go to nap until mama gets back...) and I will start playing
with ASL soon after.

So far I know we can use internet to connect to other networks (just
like Fusion Wires-X), but my main concern is what happen when internet
goes down (it is a problem over here). So here is a list of questions:

 1. Can we manage our network without connecting to ASL servers ? Let's
    say without any internet network, all our repeaters needs to stay
    linked.
 2. Is there a way to have redundant link between the HUB and RPTs ? All
    RPTs would be normally connected to the HUB server, but if the HUB
    goes down or one node can't connect to it, it would try to connect
    to other nodes to remain inside the network.
 3. Does one needs to manage links manually or a "link" / "unlink"
    switch can be used ? Ex: *1 : connect/disconnect the RPT to/from the
    network (trying to connect to HUB first, then to other nodes until
    it can reach one) or a user needs to try each links manually using DTMF.
 4. For the phone patch I am thinking about using an LTE phone interface
    that we can connect any regular analog phone to it. What kind of
    interface would be needed for it to work ? We prefer this LTE
    interface over VoIP services simply because the cellphone network is
    way more reliable than internet.

If you have any good links to projects similar to what we look for, just
send them.

Thanks in advance for your help,

-- 
Jean-Michel Vien - VA2XJM
VA2XJM at gmail.com

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From Bryan at bryanfields.net  Wed Feb  6 19:32:40 2019
From: Bryan at bryanfields.net (Bryan Fields)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 14:32:40 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Questions about ASL capabilities when internet
 is down
In-Reply-To: <a865f453-98b8-c41f-ceb4-7f75d68f665e@gmail.com>
References: <a865f453-98b8-c41f-ceb4-7f75d68f665e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60193ef2-8fa9-e32d-10b0-9b383db34066@bryanfields.net>

On 2/6/19 2:23 PM, Jean-Michel Vien - VA2XJM wrote:
> So we are a small group wishing to deploy an amateur network of analog
> and fusion repeater along with other features like phonepatch. I play
> with AREDN at the moment

ARDEN is not deterministic, and voip will be a crap shoot on it. Dedicated
links with QoS are needed.

> So far I know we can use internet to connect to other networks (just
> like Fusion Wires-X), but my main concern is what happen when internet
> goes down (it is a problem over here). So here is a list of questions:
> 
>  1. Can we manage our network without connecting to ASL servers ? Let's
>     say without any internet network, all our repeaters needs to stay
>     linked.

There is no requirement to have your nodes talk to AllStar Link.  Asterisk and
app_rpt are completely independent for private nodes (beginning with 1xxxx).
The HUB could be a public node if you wanted too.

>  2. Is there a way to have redundant link between the HUB and RPTs ? All
>     RPTs would be normally connected to the HUB server, but if the HUB
>     goes down or one node can't connect to it, it would try to connect
>     to other nodes to remain inside the network.

You can do a permanent link where if the system goes down it will try to
reconnect.  You can setup a script to try reconnecting too if you want.

>  3. Does one needs to manage links manually or a "link" / "unlink"
>     switch can be used ? Ex: *1 : connect/disconnect the RPT to/from the
>     network (trying to connect to HUB first, then to other nodes until
>     it can reach one) or a user needs to try each links manually using DTMF.

It will connect to the hub, and then bridge to the other nodes.

>  4. For the phone patch I am thinking about using an LTE phone interface
>     that we can connect any regular analog phone to it. What kind of
>     interface would be needed for it to work ? We prefer this LTE
>     interface over VoIP services simply because the cellphone network is
>     way more reliable than internet.

Most people use SIP.  There are SIP interfaces to LTE/GSM which would work.


-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net


From cummingsj at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 19:48:35 2019
From: cummingsj at gmail.com (JJC)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 12:48:35 -0700
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Questions about ASL capabilities when internet
 is down
In-Reply-To: <a865f453-98b8-c41f-ceb4-7f75d68f665e@gmail.com>
References: <a865f453-98b8-c41f-ceb4-7f75d68f665e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOb75OvXZp4-OpDmt+GeG45ZYJsf7_c-iC1Ng97tOPDmkcu8oA@mail.gmail.com>

Inline....

On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 12:24 PM Jean-Michel Vien - VA2XJM <va2xjm at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I guess those questions has been asked before, but I found no efficient
> way to search past posts from the mailing list (and I must admit I prefer
> forums over a mailing list that I usually avoid).
>
> So we are a small group wishing to deploy an amateur network of analog and
> fusion repeater along with other features like phonepatch. I play with
> AREDN at the moment and we plan to use that to inter-connect our sites over
> a 5Ghz WISP network (kind of like wifi). It allows us to bring internet to
> each site and open up a lots of possibility (VoIP network, network camera,
> remote access to control devices, emails... all that over a single link).
>
> I actually know nothing about Asterisk/ASL. I just downloaded ASL, I plan
> to start reading docs as soon as the baby goes to nap (and I feels he won't
> go to nap until mama gets back...) and I will start playing with ASL soon
> after.
>
> So far I know we can use internet to connect to other networks (just like
> Fusion Wires-X), but my main concern is what happen when internet goes down
> (it is a problem over here). So here is a list of questions:
>
>    1. Can we manage our network without connecting to ASL servers ? Let's
>    say without any internet network, all our repeaters needs to stay linked.
>
> ASLs only requirement is that you have IP connectivity to whichever
node(s) connect to one another, the internet has nothing to do with it...
We run a private Analog repeater network of 15+ repeaters all across a
private microwave network built out for just this purpose.

>
>    1. Is there a way to have redundant link between the HUB and RPTs ?
>    All RPTs would be normally connected to the HUB server, but if the HUB goes
>    down or one node can't connect to it, it would try to connect to other
>    nodes to remain inside the network.
>
> There are a number of ways to do this, from scripting on the hub/node(s)
themselves to building redundant networking (probably the better option)

>
>    1. Does one needs to manage links manually or a "link" / "unlink"
>    switch can be used ? Ex: *1 : connect/disconnect the RPT to/from the
>    network (trying to connect to HUB first, then to other nodes until it can
>    reach one) or a user needs to try each links manually using DTMF.
>
> Could be scripted on the node(s)/hub...  you can also define custom dtmf
commands to do custom things

>
>    1. For the phone patch I am thinking about using an LTE phone
>    interface that we can connect any regular analog phone to it. What kind of
>    interface would be needed for it to work ? We prefer this LTE interface
>    over VoIP services simply because the cellphone network is way more
>    reliable than internet.
>
> There are a number of ways to do this, the underlying system of ASL is
Asterisk - an open source PBX system that has enough extensibility to use
things like SIP, or hardlines with special hardware etc etc...

>
>
> If you have any good links to projects similar to what we look for, just
> send them.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help,
>
> --
> Jean-Michel Vien - VA2XJMVA2XJM at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
>
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From jh0932 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 20:41:11 2019
From: jh0932 at gmail.com (John Heron)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 15:41:11 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
Message-ID: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>

Gave the guy who is heading up linking GMRS repeaters together the bad news of pirated software. Let?s see how he takes it...




From jh0932 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 22:26:44 2019
From: jh0932 at gmail.com (John Heron)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 17:26:44 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
References: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A95F9983-85E4-42E2-B9D7-2E7E72C17277@gmail.com>

I guess this kid that I brought to his attention of the pirated software he is using and basing his whole network on, didn?t appreciate my efforts and he blocked me!!! GMRSlinked.com 


> On Feb 6, 2019, at 3:41 PM, John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Gave the guy who is heading up linking GMRS repeaters together the bad news of pirated software. Let?s see how he takes it...
> 
> 


From buddy at brannan.name  Thu Feb  7 05:11:43 2019
From: buddy at brannan.name (Buddy Brannan)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 00:11:43 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
References: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78875211-9B29-40DC-A638-940506D70EA1@brannan.name>

Wait?what?s pirated? Can one pirate free and open source software? OK, so they can?t use the All Star Link infrastructure, but so what? 

> On Feb 6, 2019, at 3:41 PM, John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Gave the guy who is heading up linking GMRS repeaters together the bad news of pirated software. Let?s see how he takes it...
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 



From buddy at brannan.name  Thu Feb  7 05:23:20 2019
From: buddy at brannan.name (Buddy Brannan)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 00:23:20 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <78875211-9B29-40DC-A638-940506D70EA1@brannan.name>
References: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
 <78875211-9B29-40DC-A638-940506D70EA1@brannan.name>
Message-ID: <DEE667BA-F021-46F4-88C9-3FB5DB66F7A5@brannan.name>

I should clarify. Some might say that ?printing? of free/GPL would be not honoring the GPL by not distributing/making source available with distribution packages. But I mean besides that. 

> On Feb 7, 2019, at 12:11 AM, Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name> wrote:
> 
> Wait?what?s pirated? Can one pirate free and open source software? OK, so they can?t use the All Star Link infrastructure, but so what? 
> 
>> On Feb 6, 2019, at 3:41 PM, John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Gave the guy who is heading up linking GMRS repeaters together the bad news of pirated software. Let?s see how he takes it...
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 



From jd0 at broadsci.com  Thu Feb  7 14:38:45 2019
From: jd0 at broadsci.com (Jeff DePolo)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 09:38:45 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
References: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3FB293B3E69443DC910CD6B758656915@OUTLAW>

> Gave the guy who is heading up linking GMRS repeaters 
> together the bad news of pirated software. Let?s see how he 
> takes it...

Pirated software is probably the least of his problems.

? 95.1733   Prohibited GMRS uses.

 (8) Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and
   transmitted by a GMRS station;





---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From martye at usham.org  Fri Feb  8 12:34:18 2019
From: martye at usham.org (Marty)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 07:34:18 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Multiple PL tones
Message-ID: <e2c6d6bf-9e74-adc4-18c5-f6dddb097580@usham.org>

I have a question about using multiple PL tone.
I have a guy that is using two usb interfaces per Pi to control his 
radio sorta like TalkGroups or an Zedtron
controller would work like as a Community repeater.
Have any idea what I'm talking about? And yes he is using ASL on his 
system.

73,
Marty KD4HLV
ASL-Node 28523



From mm at midnighteng.com  Fri Feb  8 15:50:18 2019
From: mm at midnighteng.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 10:50:18 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Multiple PL tones
In-Reply-To: <e2c6d6bf-9e74-adc4-18c5-f6dddb097580@usham.org>
References: <e2c6d6bf-9e74-adc4-18c5-f6dddb097580@usham.org>
Message-ID: <9a74b79d-37b8-551f-3940-6a7c5959c54d@midnighteng.com>

Marty,
ASL/app_rpt is perfectly capable of using multiple PL/CTCSS tones.
But I do not see a question to answer in your statements.
Do you have a question on a specific use case ?

...mike/kb8jnm

On 2/8/2019 7:34 AM, Marty wrote:
> I have a question about using multiple PL tone.
> I have a guy that is using two usb interfaces per Pi to control his 
> radio sorta like TalkGroups or an Zedtron
> controller would work like as a Community repeater.
> Have any idea what I'm talking about? And yes he is using ASL on his 
> system.
> 
> 73,
> Marty KD4HLV
> ASL-Node 28523
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit 
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and 
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and 
> press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email 
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message 
> to the list detailing the problem.


From kuggie at kuggie.com  Fri Feb  8 15:55:47 2019
From: kuggie at kuggie.com (Kevin Custer)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 10:55:47 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Multiple PL tones
In-Reply-To: <e2c6d6bf-9e74-adc4-18c5-f6dddb097580@usham.org>
References: <e2c6d6bf-9e74-adc4-18c5-f6dddb097580@usham.org>
Message-ID: <bf2e9429-f801-917e-52fd-778510113f26@kuggie.com>

Marty,

Multiple CTCSS tone encoding/decoding is available in the usbradio 
channel driver.? To properly use this channel driver, you must deliver 
raw discriminator audio into the radio adapter.? You must also drive the 
TX modulator with the encode tone.? A complete explanation of this is 
beyond the scope of this email.

It is NOT currently recommended to use the CM119B based radio adapters 
with usbradio because of several issues.? Use an older URI, URIx or 
other radio adapters that still use the CM119A.

The minimum number of changes to the CTCSS stanza in the usbradio.conf 
file looks like this:

carrierfrom=dsp
ctcssfrom=dsp
rxdemod=flat
txctcssdefault=88.5??? ; Tx CTCSS Default Encode
 ??? ??? ??????????????????????????? ; Encodes this tone if no other 
tone in use.

rxctcssfreqs=88.5, 103.5, 123.0, 186.2 ?? ??? ; rx ctcss frequency. this 
must be in the tone table.
txctcssfreqs=88.5, 103.5, 123.0, 186.2 ?? ??? ; tx ctcss frequency. any 
frequency is permitted.

Basically, if you come in on 88.5, the repeater will encode 88.5. If you 
come in on another frequency, you'll encode that frequency, if 
everything is defined correctly.? There are timing parameters that can 
be 'buggy', but it does work to some degree.? You can use any of the 
CTCSS tones defined in the table.

Kevin W3KKC



On 2/8/2019 7:34 AM, Marty wrote:
> I have a question about using multiple PL tone.
> I have a guy that is using two usb interfaces per Pi to control his 
> radio sorta like TalkGroups or an Zedtron
> controller would work like as a Community repeater.
> Have any idea what I'm talking about? And yes he is using ASL on his 
> system.
>
> 73,
> Marty KD4HLV
> ASL-Node 28523



From Benjamin at Project23D.com  Sat Feb  9 03:11:37 2019
From: Benjamin at Project23D.com (Benjamin Naber)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2019 21:11:37 -0600
Subject: [App_rpt-users] ASL on Asterisk LTS
In-Reply-To: <CACTXTUT5MJM4gvUJK8ygy6m_+edzeAnNz_gq8hi8a9D9VF+U3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACTXTUT5MJM4gvUJK8ygy6m_+edzeAnNz_gq8hi8a9D9VF+U3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1549681897.8308.1.camel@Project23D.com>

Marco,

There are currently a number of reasons we are still using Asterisk
1.4.x

The Asterisk module that makes ASL possible is app_rpt. Dixion and his
contemporaries made chan_usbradio and chan_simpleusb which were written
for Asterisk 1.4 and 1.44. (maybe others??) These chan 'drivers' are
the HMI (human-machine-interface) to connect software to hardware for
analog signal handling/processing.

When all was working to the way Dixon wanted, he had absolutely no
reason to change this as he thought it was perfect. Him and I got into
many discussions about this, and we see now how it went..

The module app_rpt was discontinued in distribution by Digium, owner of
Asterisk, release is version 11... I think, maybe it was 1.8. I need to
find the source to verify that. Either way, Digium quit supporting and
shipping app_rpt with their asterisk source code some years ago. 

Jim Dixion and the creator of Asterisk and Mark Spencer, created
app_rpt for connecting radios to Mark's adolescent-stage creation, for
use of radios with a VoIP exchange system - making it RoIP.


No one has stepped up to the plate to "patch/fork/whatever" app_rpt to
the later versions of Asterisk.


This kinda needs to happen as the world makes a very slow, but
inevitable transition to IPv6. Which the current version of Asterisk we
are using does not support. (Sure there are work-arounds, but those are
getting complicated to make work *reliably*).


In the mean time, bleeding edge technology and software are filled with
new engineering problems - not stable.

The version we are using is stable, and secure - the weak link is the
un-educated user. (think: new and/or bad car driver)

Also consider this- most of us who have cars,trucks, boats are using a
technology well over 100 years old. The outside of the magical machine
has changed some, but in the end the fundamental operation of
controlled explosions turned into mechanical energy i.g, shaft power,
is the same.

If you have an electric car, the induction motor is the same principal
design that Tesla made.

So, here we stand. Who gonna do it? If someone is complaining about it,
but not willing to actually do something about it, that someone should
be quiet. 

Take it as you see it. Everyone is responsible for how they tune their
own receiver.


Benjamin, KB9LFZ




-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Brunozzi <marco.brunozzi at gmail.com>
Reply-to: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-
users at lists.allstarlink.org>
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
Subject: [App_rpt-users] ASL on Asterisk LTS
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 09:24:02 +0100

Hi everyone,
I'm looking for a way to use Asterisk LTS or other new version for
ASL, is that possible?
Thanks in advance,
73 Marco IW0RED.



From kg7qin at arrl.net  Sun Feb 10 08:09:46 2019
From: kg7qin at arrl.net (Stacy)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 00:09:46 -0800
Subject: [App_rpt-users] ASL on Asterisk LTS
In-Reply-To: <1549681897.8308.1.camel@Project23D.com>
References: <CACTXTUT5MJM4gvUJK8ygy6m_+edzeAnNz_gq8hi8a9D9VF+U3w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1549681897.8308.1.camel@Project23D.com>
Message-ID: <c9bdc13f-0682-e55a-e181-83c31a882313@arrl.net>

On 2/8/19 7:11 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote:

Benjamin,
For some reason your message here, while probably not meant to do so,
has struck a nerve with me (I normally don't reply to this list, and
just sit back and watch the interactions here).? So I will say to you
and whoever else who is of the same opinion as you -- that things are
fine as they stand -- they most certainly are not fine.? While things
more or less "work", you have given one reason below why they are not
fine -- IPv6.

I'm not here to pick a fight, but I do feel compelled to answer when I
see a post like this.

Progress is only made when someone takes an idea and runs with it.? I
for one welcome people in the community asking about stuff such as this
(or even better, pitching in and contributing in their own way).? I
honestly do not know what to make of your reply here, except for maybe a
friendly attempt at trying to steer or mentor Marcos based on his question?

My reply here should not be taken as an attack on you, so please do not
take it as so.

> Marco,
>
> There are currently a number of reasons we are still using Asterisk
> 1.4.x
>
> The Asterisk module that makes ASL possible is app_rpt. Dixion and his
> contemporaries made chan_usbradio and chan_simpleusb which were written
> for Asterisk 1.4 and 1.44. (maybe others??) These chan 'drivers' are
> the HMI (human-machine-interface) to connect software to hardware for
> analog signal handling/processing.
Human Interface Device (HID) class not HMI.? The HID class is part of
the USB specification and specifies a device class for Human Interface
Devices (or HMIs) such as keyboards, touch screens, etc.
> When all was working to the way Dixon wanted, he had absolutely no
> reason to change this as he thought it was perfect. Him and I got into
> many discussions about this, and we see now how it went..
>
> The module app_rpt was discontinued in distribution by Digium, owner of
> Asterisk, release is version 11... I think, maybe it was 1.8. I need to
> find the source to verify that. Either way, Digium quit supporting and
> shipping app_rpt with their asterisk source code some years ago. 
>
> Jim Dixion and the creator of Asterisk and Mark Spencer, created
> app_rpt for connecting radios to Mark's adolescent-stage creation, for
> use of radios with a VoIP exchange system - making it RoIP.
Don't forget about Steve RoDgers. :)
>
> No one has stepped up to the plate to "patch/fork/whatever" app_rpt to
> the later versions of Asterisk.
>
I will just leave this right here for now.
https://github.com/KG7QIN/AllStarLink-Asterisk-1.8

This was done back in October/November 2015.

It is Alpha level code at best right now.? The core app_rpt functions, I
cannot guarantee that anything else does.

The reason that nobody has done it is both that it is a major
undertaking, and that you rarely find more than one or two people crazy
enough to take it on.? The reason for it being a major undertaking is
that, the higher you get in Asterisk versions, the more significant the
changes are from 1.4.23pre.

> This kinda needs to happen as the world makes a very slow, but
> inevitable transition to IPv6. Which the current version of Asterisk we
> are using does not support. (Sure there are work-arounds, but those are
> getting complicated to make work *reliably*).
>
True, IPv6 support is lacking from 1.4.23pre.? In addition to a change
in the client code, there would also need to be an update of the
infrastructure that supports it.
> In the mean time, bleeding edge technology and software are filled with
> new engineering problems - not stable.
I will disagree with you on this.? The LTS versions, while significantly
newer (and supported) code bases than the 1.4.23pre we are using, are
not "bleeding edge technology".? They are the stable tracks of Asterisk
that aren't supposed to introduce new features.? They also provide
security and stability fixes while they are supported until the next
version is stable enough to move to the LTS track.? The newer versions
of Asterisk have their own quirks and bugs, but are just as if not more
stable than our 1.4.23pre code base.
>
> The version we are using is stable, and secure - the weak link is the
> un-educated user. (think: new and/or bad car driver)

Stable and secure?? Not to nit pick here, but the 1.4 code base is over
10 years old.? There are bugs and other "features" that have been
fixed/patched in the later supported versions that still exist in what
we use.? A few were back ported...

I also disagree on your analogy, but I'm not here to start a flame war
or mailing list argument, as I had stated above.


> Also consider this- most of us who have cars,trucks, boats are using a
> technology well over 100 years old. The outside of the magical machine
> has changed some, but in the end the fundamental operation of
> controlled explosions turned into mechanical energy i.g, shaft power,
> is the same.
>
> If you have an electric car, the induction motor is the same principal
> design that Tesla made.
The basic principles are the same, however the implementation of said
principles can be improved upon and made more efficient as technology
progresses.?? The same can be said with regards to the underlying
technology of both Asterisk and app_rpt.
> So, here we stand. Who gonna do it? If someone is complaining about it,
> but not willing to actually do something about it, that someone should
> be quiet. 

To answer your question: "Who gonna do it?"? I will and already have to
some extent.? I've done something about it with the Github repo above, a
push forward from the technological deficit we are currently in.

> Take it as you see it. Everyone is responsible for how they tune their
> own receiver.

So, let me turn your question back around at you.?

What are you going to to??

Contributions are always welcome to AllStarLink.?

The Wiki could use some articles written for it (wiki.allstarlink.org).?

Do you know how to code in C?? If so, hit up the list server and
subscribe to the -dev mailing list.?

The helpdesk team could always use a hand from someone who is
experienced with assisting users with problems.? Send an email to
helpdesk at allstarlink.org asking how you can help out.


Benjamin,

Based on your message here, you seem to have a strong opinion and are
passionate about this stuff.?

I strongly encourage you to volunteer and share your experience with the
community.? Be it ham radio, using AllStarLink, or just technology in
general.? The more people who volunteer, the stronger we are.?

If you are interested, then please send an email to
helpdesk at allstarlink.org stating what you can do and asking where you
can help.

Thanks

-Stacy

KG7QIN

> Benjamin, KB9LFZ


Disclaimer:? I'm a member of the AllStarLink admin team, one of the
group of volunteers who runs/maintains the infrastructure behind this
beast called AllStarLink.? I also "own" (own as in run/moderate) the
ASL-Dev mailing list and am responsible for the AllStarLink github repo
update that happened recently, among other things.? Unless I
specifically state so, my opinions are entirely my own.



From fwbray at mminternet.com  Mon Feb 11 18:45:48 2019
From: fwbray at mminternet.com (fwbray at mminternet.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 10:45:48 -0800
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <3FB293B3E69443DC910CD6B758656915@OUTLAW>
References: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
 <3FB293B3E69443DC910CD6B758656915@OUTLAW>
Message-ID: <461206546f82c44eb9a210962c03fc7d@mminternet.com>

On 2019-02-07 06:38, Jeff DePolo wrote:

> 
> Pirated software is probably the least of his problems.
> 
> ? 95.1733   Prohibited GMRS uses.
> 
>  (8) Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and
>    transmitted by a GMRS station;
> 

When the FCC last revisited the GMRS regulations, it expressly declined 
to clarify this and certain other provisions. There are arguably 
conflicts between this section and others that expressly authorize 
various forms of remote control.

However, even reading the above-language to apply to things like 
traditional tone and DC remotes and their modern equivalents, a wireline 
link that merely coveys audio, such as to voter, could be found 
permissible so long as it can't/doesn't control the 
transmitter/repeater, especially if that is already under automatic 
control.

It isn't my intent to start a legal debate about this -- just to point 
out that there is ambiguity that the FCC declined to address and that 
reasonable people can interpret the provision differently.

KE6CD


From wb6egr at gmail.com  Mon Feb 11 20:31:13 2019
From: wb6egr at gmail.com (Kirk Just Kirk)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 12:31:13 -0800
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <461206546f82c44eb9a210962c03fc7d@mminternet.com>
References: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
 <3FB293B3E69443DC910CD6B758656915@OUTLAW>
 <461206546f82c44eb9a210962c03fc7d@mminternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAPN8drxsBnCFPNkrWOh9Pp=D_Nz=hOOqokL5-NckihpOqr5qxw@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a MAJOR problem....
"GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier squelch
before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend over the VoIP
circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other local stations, not
knowing they are on the channel.To be fully compliant, each GMRS node would
have to listen on the channel for activity BEFORE keying up!
All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine to
result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's purpose. I
know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to disagree....but
thats the way it is.


On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 10:45 AM <fwbray at mminternet.com> wrote:

> On 2019-02-07 06:38, Jeff DePolo wrote:
>
> >
> > Pirated software is probably the least of his problems.
> >
> > ? 95.1733   Prohibited GMRS uses.
> >
> >  (8) Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and
> >    transmitted by a GMRS station;
> >
>
> When the FCC last revisited the GMRS regulations, it expressly declined
> to clarify this and certain other provisions. There are arguably
> conflicts between this section and others that expressly authorize
> various forms of remote control.
>
> However, even reading the above-language to apply to things like
> traditional tone and DC remotes and their modern equivalents, a wireline
> link that merely coveys audio, such as to voter, could be found
> permissible so long as it can't/doesn't control the
> transmitter/repeater, especially if that is already under automatic
> control.
>
> It isn't my intent to start a legal debate about this -- just to point
> out that there is ambiguity that the FCC declined to address and that
> reasonable people can interpret the provision differently.
>
> KE6CD
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
>
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From fwbray at mminternet.com  Mon Feb 11 22:29:54 2019
From: fwbray at mminternet.com (fwbray at mminternet.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 14:29:54 -0800
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <CAPN8drxsBnCFPNkrWOh9Pp=D_Nz=hOOqokL5-NckihpOqr5qxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
 <3FB293B3E69443DC910CD6B758656915@OUTLAW>
 <461206546f82c44eb9a210962c03fc7d@mminternet.com>
 <CAPN8drxsBnCFPNkrWOh9Pp=D_Nz=hOOqokL5-NckihpOqr5qxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9be578db25f36a5c8212945386a8c4f7@mminternet.com>

Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ? 95.1733(a)(8) 
prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a 
remote source, such as a voting receiver.  It didn't concern the wisdom 
or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can 
set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same 
"wireline" link that carries the audio.

The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical 
ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many 
people who set up links might not implement them.  If one wants to set 
up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure 
that it operates legally.  However, with any repeater, there's no 
guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users 
in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar 
issues exist with amateur radio systems.

I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet 
linked system if they thought it through.  Unless you are using 
independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust 
system during a calamity.

KE6CD






On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:

> Here is a MAJOR problem....
> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier
> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend
> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other
> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully
> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for
> activity BEFORE keying up!
> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine
> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's
> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to
> disagree....but thats the way it is.
> 




From kd2sl at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 12 11:40:59 2019
From: kd2sl at yahoo.com (Kevin Tubbs (KD2SL))
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 11:40:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [App_rpt-users] 6m Net Invitation, Tuesday Nights
References: <1252040452.2259786.1549971659637.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1252040452.2259786.1549971659637@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,
In Syracuse, NY we have what is likely the "most expensive 6m repeater antenna" in the world, a former TV broadcast antenna.? You can read more about it at?http://www.kd2sl.com.??
The reason I'm bringing this up is because every Tuesday night at 7:00 pm EST we have a 6 meter net, with two 6m repeaters linked: 53.67 in Syracuse, and 53.05 in Auburn.? And now that AllStar node 47460 has been installed on the 53.67 repeater, I'd like to invite anyone with an AllStar-connected 6 meter repeater to join us.
The net runs about an hour, bringing together an average of 20-25 6 meter enthusiasts for casual chat on the Magic Band.? Feel free to connect your 6m repeater to node 47460 every Tuesday night at 7:00 pm EST.? And please check in to say hello!
73 - Kevin KD2SL


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From jh0932 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 16:08:11 2019
From: jh0932 at gmail.com (John Heron)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 11:08:11 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <9be578db25f36a5c8212945386a8c4f7@mminternet.com>
References: <71D05458-3015-40C5-9FA0-5C90D6148D0D@gmail.com>
 <3FB293B3E69443DC910CD6B758656915@OUTLAW>
 <461206546f82c44eb9a210962c03fc7d@mminternet.com>
 <CAPN8drxsBnCFPNkrWOh9Pp=D_Nz=hOOqokL5-NckihpOqr5qxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9be578db25f36a5c8212945386a8c4f7@mminternet.com>
Message-ID: <5DA34CA0-1F5B-4868-BFC5-98562DE19203@gmail.com>

If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal. 

All the best, John Heron
561-334-6494
jh0932 at gmail.com


> On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com wrote:
> 
> Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ? 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver.  It didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio.
> 
> The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement them.  If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally.  However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur radio systems.
> 
> I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet linked system if they thought it through.  Unless you are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a calamity.
> 
> KE6CD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
>> 
>> Here is a MAJOR problem....
>> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier
>> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend
>> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other
>> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully
>> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for
>> activity BEFORE keying up!
>> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine
>> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
>> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's
>> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to
>> disagree....but thats the way it is.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 


From mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 23:51:58 2019
From: mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com (mitchmitchell1616)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 17:51:58 -0600
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <5DA34CA0-1F5B-4868-BFC5-98562DE19203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c635c21.1c69fb81.6e043.09c8@mx.google.com>

From what I remember,? they didn't want you bypassing the long distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end.? Once IP network is involved,? the underlying physical network architecture isn't relevant.? ?Lots of outdated rules still on the books.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com> Date: 2/12/19  10:08 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal. All the best, John Heron561-334-6494jh0932 at gmail.com> On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com wrote:> > Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ? 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver.? It didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio.> > The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement them.? If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally.? However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur radio systems.> > I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet linked system if they thought it through.? Unless you are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a calamity.> > KE6CD> > > > > > >> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:>> >> Here is a MAJOR problem....>> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier>> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend>> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other>> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully>> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for>> activity BEFORE keying up!>> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine>> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.>> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's>> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to>> disagree....but thats the way it is.> > > _______________________________________________> App_rpt-users mailing list> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users> > To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. _______________________________________________App_rpt-users mailing listApp_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.orghttp://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-usersTo unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
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From kc2irv at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 23:59:49 2019
From: kc2irv at gmail.com (Joe Moskalski)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 18:59:49 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <5c635c21.1c69fb81.6e043.09c8@mx.google.com>
References: <5DA34CA0-1F5B-4868-BFC5-98562DE19203@gmail.com>
 <5c635c21.1c69fb81.6e043.09c8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAES28qz0rGxSRghBRQV9yUorWb6d0iJ9vEYWJ0x+1QOPObG-hw@mail.gmail.com>

That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point since
that is not regulated.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 <mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com
wrote:

> From what I remember,  they didn't want you bypassing the long distance
> carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call
> to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end.  Once IP
> network is involved,  the underlying physical network architecture isn't
> relevant.   Lots of outdated rules still on the books.
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com>
> Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00)
> To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
>
> If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any
> part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal.
>
> All the best, John Heron
> 561-334-6494
> jh0932 at gmail.com
>
>
> > On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com wrote:
> >
> > Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ? 95.1733(a)(8)
> prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote
> source, such as a voting receiver.  It didn't concern the wisdom or other
> issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node
> where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that
> carries the audio.
> >
> > The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical
> ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many
> people who set up links might not implement them.  If one wants to set up a
> linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it
> operates legally.  However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that
> all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage
> area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with
> amateur radio systems.
> >
> > I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet
> linked system if they thought it through.  Unless you are using independent
> RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a
> calamity.
> >
> > KE6CD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
> >>
> >> Here is a MAJOR problem....
> >> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier
> >> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend
> >> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other
> >> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully
> >> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for
> >> activity BEFORE keying up!
> >> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine
> >> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
> >> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's
> >> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to
> >> disagree....but thats the way it is.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > App_rpt-users mailing list
> > App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> > http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> > You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
>
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From jh0932 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 02:45:42 2019
From: jh0932 at gmail.com (John Heron)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:45:42 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <CAES28qz0rGxSRghBRQV9yUorWb6d0iJ9vEYWJ0x+1QOPObG-hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5DA34CA0-1F5B-4868-BFC5-98562DE19203@gmail.com>
 <5c635c21.1c69fb81.6e043.09c8@mx.google.com>
 <CAES28qz0rGxSRghBRQV9yUorWb6d0iJ9vEYWJ0x+1QOPObG-hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07C94B4B-457F-4CF2-BDEC-C3BD413364AA@gmail.com>

Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only thing that did change. 

If any part of a linked network touches a telco it?s in violation.

All the best, John Heron
561-334-6494
jh0932 at gmail.com


> On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point since that is not regulated.
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 <mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com wrote:
>> From what I remember,  they didn't want you bypassing the long distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end.  Once IP network is involved,  the underlying physical network architecture isn't relevant.   Lots of outdated rules still on the books.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com>
>> Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00)
>> To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
>> 
>> If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal. 
>> 
>> All the best, John Heron
>> 561-334-6494
>> jh0932 at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> > On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com wrote:
>> > 
>> > Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ? 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver.  It didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio.
>> > 
>> > The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement them.  If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally.  However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur radio systems.
>> > 
>> > I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet linked system if they thought it through.  Unless you are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a calamity.
>> > 
>> > KE6CD
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> Here is a MAJOR problem....
>> >> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier
>> >> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend
>> >> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other
>> >> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully
>> >> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for
>> >> activity BEFORE keying up!
>> >> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine
>> >> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
>> >> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's
>> >> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to
>> >> disagree....but thats the way it is.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > App_rpt-users mailing list
>> > App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> > http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>> > 
>> > To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> > You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
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From mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 02:47:35 2019
From: mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com (Mitch Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 20:47:35 -0600
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <07C94B4B-457F-4CF2-BDEC-C3BD413364AA@gmail.com>
References: <5DA34CA0-1F5B-4868-BFC5-98562DE19203@gmail.com>
 <5c635c21.1c69fb81.6e043.09c8@mx.google.com>
 <CAES28qz0rGxSRghBRQV9yUorWb6d0iJ9vEYWJ0x+1QOPObG-hw@mail.gmail.com>
 <07C94B4B-457F-4CF2-BDEC-C3BD413364AA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c638548.1c69fb81.60b81.ba5a@mx.google.com>

So its not just Ham radio where folks love to point out how much of their hobby is illegal.  Never mind.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Heron
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 8:45 PM
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP

Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only thing that did change.?

If any part of a linked network touches a telco it?s in violation.
All the best, John Heron
561-334-6494
jh0932 at gmail.com


On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com> wrote:
That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point since that is not regulated.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 <mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com wrote:
>From what I remember,? they didn't want you bypassing the long distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end.? Once IP network is involved,? the underlying physical network architecture isn't relevant.? ?Lots of outdated rules still on the books.



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com> 
Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00) 
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org> 
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP 

If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal. 

All the best, John Heron
561-334-6494
jh0932 at gmail.com


> On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com wrote:
> 
> Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ? 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver.? It didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio.
> 
> The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement them.? If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally.? However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur radio systems.
> 
> I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet linked system if they thought it through.? Unless you are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a calamity.
> 
> KE6CD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
>> 
>> Here is a MAJOR problem....
>> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier
>> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend
>> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other
>> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully
>> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for
>> activity BEFORE keying up!
>> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine
>> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
>> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's
>> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to
>> disagree....but thats the way it is.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
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From mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 02:48:58 2019
From: mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com (Mitch Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 20:48:58 -0600
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <5c638548.1c69fb81.60b81.ba5a@mx.google.com>
References: <5DA34CA0-1F5B-4868-BFC5-98562DE19203@gmail.com>
 <5c635c21.1c69fb81.6e043.09c8@mx.google.com>
 <CAES28qz0rGxSRghBRQV9yUorWb6d0iJ9vEYWJ0x+1QOPObG-hw@mail.gmail.com>
 <07C94B4B-457F-4CF2-BDEC-C3BD413364AA@gmail.com>
 <5c638548.1c69fb81.60b81.ba5a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5c63859a.1c69fb81.ec5e2.ddbf@mx.google.com>

But please ? cite a NAL where this has been the issue.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mitch Mitchell
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 8:47 PM
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt
Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP

So its not just Ham radio where folks love to point out how much of their hobby is illegal.? Never mind.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Heron
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 8:45 PM
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP

Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only thing that did change.?

If any part of a linked network touches a telco it?s in violation.
All the best, John Heron
561-334-6494
jh0932 at gmail.com


On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com> wrote:
That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point since that is not regulated.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 <mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com wrote:
>From what I remember,? they didn't want you bypassing the long distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end.? Once IP network is involved,? the underlying physical network architecture isn't relevant.? ?Lots of outdated rules still on the books.



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com> 
Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00) 
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org> 
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP 

If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal. 

All the best, John Heron
561-334-6494
jh0932 at gmail.com


> On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com wrote:
> 
> Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ? 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver.? It didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio.
> 
> The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement them.? If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally.? However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur radio systems.
> 
> I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet linked system if they thought it through.? Unless you are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a calamity.
> 
> KE6CD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
>> 
>> Here is a MAJOR problem....
>> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier
>> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend
>> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other
>> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully
>> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for
>> activity BEFORE keying up!
>> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine
>> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
>> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's
>> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to
>> disagree....but thats the way it is.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
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From petem001 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 02:53:08 2019
From: petem001 at gmail.com (Pierre Martel)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:53:08 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <07C94B4B-457F-4CF2-BDEC-C3BD413364AA@gmail.com>
References: <5DA34CA0-1F5B-4868-BFC5-98562DE19203@gmail.com>
 <5c635c21.1c69fb81.6e043.09c8@mx.google.com>
 <CAES28qz0rGxSRghBRQV9yUorWb6d0iJ9vEYWJ0x+1QOPObG-hw@mail.gmail.com>
 <07C94B4B-457F-4CF2-BDEC-C3BD413364AA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL8dJwooYTGTmw9DuzmD28M4ejoyWb7Gi3D-=FCXyP3xDHvMEQ@mail.gmail.com>

John, my internet is provided by a cable network.. No telco in sight, would
it still be a violation?


Le mar. 12 f?vr. 2019 ? 21:45, John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com> a ?crit :

> Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples
> interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only thing
> that did change.
>
> If any part of a linked network touches a telco it?s in violation.
>
> All the best, John Heron
> 561-334-6494
> jh0932 at gmail.com
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point since
> that is not regulated.
>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 <
> mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> From what I remember,  they didn't want you bypassing the long distance
>> carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call
>> to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end.  Once IP
>> network is involved,  the underlying physical network architecture isn't
>> relevant.   Lots of outdated rules still on the books.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com>
>> Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00)
>> To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
>>
>> If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or
>> any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed
>> illegal.
>>
>> All the best, John Heron
>> 561-334-6494
>> jh0932 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ?
>> 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline"
>> from a remote source, such as a voting receiver.  It didn't concern the
>> wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one
>> can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same
>> "wireline" link that carries the audio.
>> >
>> > The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical
>> ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many
>> people who set up links might not implement them.  If one wants to set up a
>> linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it
>> operates legally.  However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that
>> all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage
>> area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with
>> amateur radio systems.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet
>> linked system if they thought it through.  Unless you are using independent
>> RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a
>> calamity.
>> >
>> > KE6CD
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Here is a MAJOR problem....
>> >> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier
>> >> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend
>> >> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other
>> >> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully
>> >> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for
>> >> activity BEFORE keying up!
>> >> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine
>> >> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
>> >> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's
>> >> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to
>> >> disagree....but thats the way it is.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > App_rpt-users mailing list
>> > App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> > http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
>> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
>> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> > You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
>> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
>> the list detailing the problem.
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
>> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
>> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
>> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
>> the list detailing the problem.
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
>> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
>> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
>> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
>> the list detailing the problem.
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
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From petem001 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 03:05:41 2019
From: petem001 at gmail.com (Pierre Martel)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:05:41 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] posted on repeater builder
Message-ID: <CAL8dJwqy=nL06y4mPDX09svUhkmc3P7aDPZ01OYcoU=m5wJu_A@mail.gmail.com>

http://qrp-labs.com/progrock.html

looks like this could maybe usefull on multicasting???

I dont think that at that price the risk is too high..
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From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Wed Feb 13 03:06:57 2019
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:06:57 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <e3aa635c-4e11-9417-d85d-06eefad1a280@leikhim.com>
References: <e3aa635c-4e11-9417-d85d-06eefad1a280@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <11da8cc5-4826-45c4-f507-793e578332bc@leikhim.com>


I believe that rule dates back to a time where a control operator was

required to manually manage a repeater station, a requirement long
abandoned after the adoption automatic control. It was NOT added
recently to in any way prevent connection to an IP network. The FCC has
already stated a position that IP linking is permissible as long as it
does not touch the now defunct dial up PSTN or utilize the NANP.


On 2/11/2019 1:45 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com wrote:
> On 2019-02-07 06:38, Jeff DePolo wrote:
>
>>
>> Pirated software is probably the least of his problems.
>>
>> ? 95.1733?? Prohibited GMRS uses.
>>
>> ?(8) Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and
>> ?? transmitted by a GMRS station;
>>
>
> When the FCC last revisited the GMRS regulations, it expressly 
> declined to clarify this and certain other provisions. There are 
> arguably conflicts between this section and others that expressly 
> authorize various forms of remote control.
>
> However, even reading the above-language to apply to things like 
> traditional tone and DC remotes and their modern equivalents, a 
> wireline link that merely coveys audio, such as to voter, could be 
> found permissible so long as it can't/doesn't control the 
> transmitter/repeater, especially if that is already under automatic 
> control.
>
> It isn't my intent to start a legal debate about this -- just to point 
> out that there is ambiguity that the FCC declined to address and that 
> reasonable people can interpret the provision differently.
>
> KE6CD
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit 
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users 
> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address 
> and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email 
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message 
> to the list detailing the problem.
>
> ---
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> https://www.avg.com

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM



From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Wed Feb 13 03:07:06 2019
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:07:06 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <69c9edf5-e491-621e-1de7-eac33d7b32c1@leikhim.com>
References: <69c9edf5-e491-621e-1de7-eac33d7b32c1@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <8e74c881-202b-0691-2ad7-cd84326bcdf9@leikhim.com>

I am curious. Has the FCC ever issued a fine or NAL to any GMRS operator 
for linking a repeater?? I tried searching for GMRS violations once on 
the EB portal and found little in the way of GMRS violations.

On 2/12/2019 9:45 PM, John Heron wrote:
> Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples 
> interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only 
> thing that did change.
>
> If any part of a linked network touches a telco it?s in violation.
>
> All the best, John Heron
> 561-334-6494
> jh0932 at gmail.com <mailto:jh0932 at gmail.com>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com 
> <mailto:kc2irv at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point 
>> since that is not regulated.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 
>> <mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com <mailto:mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     From what I remember,? they didn't want you bypassing the long
>>     distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio
>>     connecting a local call to RF and terminating to another local
>>     call on the far end.? Once IP network is involved,? the
>>     underlying physical network architecture isn't relevant.? ?Lots
>>     of outdated rules still on the books.
>>
>>
>>
>>     Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>     -------- Original message --------
>>     From: John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com <mailto:jh0932 at gmail.com>>
>>     Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00)
>>     To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt
>>     <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>>     <mailto:app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>>
>>     Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using
>>     HAMVoIP
>>
>>     If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or
>>     landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole
>>     system is deemed illegal.
>>
>>     All the best, John Heron
>>     561-334-6494
>>     jh0932 at gmail.com <mailto:jh0932 at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>     > On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com
>>     <mailto:fwbray at mminternet.com> wrote:
>>     >
>>     > Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ?
>>     95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via
>>     "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver.? It
>>     didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the
>>     legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the
>>     transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that
>>     carries the audio.
>>     >
>>     > The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are
>>     technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out
>>     receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement
>>     them.? If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take
>>     all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally.?
>>     However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all
>>     repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the
>>     coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar
>>     issues exist with amateur radio systems.
>>     >
>>     > I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an
>>     Internet linked system if they thought it through.? Unless you
>>     are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't
>>     a very robust system during a calamity.
>>     >
>>     > KE6CD
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >> Here is a MAJOR problem....
>>     >> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier
>>     >> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not
>>     extend
>>     >> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of
>>     other
>>     >> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully
>>     >> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for
>>     >> activity BEFORE keying up!
>>     >> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS
>>     machine
>>     >> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
>>     >> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's
>>     >> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are
>>     going to
>>     >> disagree....but thats the way it is.
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > _______________________________________________
>>     > App_rpt-users mailing list
>>     > App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>>     <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>>     > http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>     >
>>     > To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>>     http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>     and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email
>>     address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>>     > You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via
>>     email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please
>>     send a message to the list detailing the problem.
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     App_rpt-users mailing list
>>     App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>>     <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>>     http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>
>>     To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>>     http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>     and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email
>>     address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>>     You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via
>>     email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please
>>     send a message to the list detailing the problem.
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     App_rpt-users mailing list
>>     App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>>     <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>>     http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>
>>     To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>>     http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>     and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email
>>     address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>>     You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via
>>     email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please
>>     send a message to the list detailing the problem.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org 
>> <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit 
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users 
>> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address 
>> and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email 
>> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a 
>> message to the list detailing the problem.
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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> To unsubscribe from this list please visithttp://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users  and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
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-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM

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From mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 03:09:26 2019
From: mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com (Mitch Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:09:26 -0600
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <8e74c881-202b-0691-2ad7-cd84326bcdf9@leikhim.com>
References: <69c9edf5-e491-621e-1de7-eac33d7b32c1@leikhim.com>
 <8e74c881-202b-0691-2ad7-cd84326bcdf9@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <5c638a66.1c69fb81.5e30a.61fd@mx.google.com>

I searched fairly extensively through NALs for other reasons and I was struck by how hard individuals had to work to get fined by the FCC.  Frankly I would not have the stamina.  I don?t specifically remember seeing anything like this but I was looking for other things at the time.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joe Leikhim
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 9:07 PM
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP

I am curious. Has the FCC ever issued a fine or NAL to any GMRS operator for linking a repeater?? I tried searching for GMRS violations once on the EB portal and found little in the way of GMRS violations.
On 2/12/2019 9:45 PM, John Heron wrote:
Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only thing that did change.? 

If any part of a linked network touches a telco it?s in violation.
All the best, John Heron
561-334-6494
jh0932 at gmail.com


On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com> wrote:
That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point since that is not regulated.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 <mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com wrote:
>From what I remember,? they didn't want you bypassing the long distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end.? Once IP network is involved,? the underlying physical network architecture isn't relevant.? ?Lots of outdated rules still on the books.



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com> 
Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00) 
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org> 
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP 

If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal. 

All the best, John Heron
561-334-6494
jh0932 at gmail.com


> On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com wrote:
> 
> Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether ? 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver.? It didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio.
> 
> The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement them.? If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally.? However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur radio systems.
> 
> I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet linked system if they thought it through.? Unless you are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a calamity.
> 
> KE6CD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
>> 
>> Here is a MAJOR problem....
>> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier
>> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend
>> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other
>> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully
>> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for
>> activity BEFORE keying up!
>> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine
>> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter.
>> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's
>> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to
>> disagree....but thats the way it is.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
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_______________________________________________
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-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM

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From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Wed Feb 13 03:23:49 2019
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:23:49 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <5c638a66.1c69fb81.5e30a.61fd@mx.google.com>
References: <69c9edf5-e491-621e-1de7-eac33d7b32c1@leikhim.com>
 <8e74c881-202b-0691-2ad7-cd84326bcdf9@leikhim.com>
 <5c638a66.1c69fb81.5e30a.61fd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7685b7a5-307e-8372-bf38-2a293822fed5@leikhim.com>

It does seem the most stubborn bunch get busted. They get a nice 
friendly warning and then go bigger.? The FCC does not like being lied 
to. That will get you NAL'd right away.

I saw a beat up van in traffic in my neighborhood here in Central 
Florida. It caught my eye for all the various stickers on it. So I 
google it and it is owned by a Haitian businessman in south Florida who 
was busted repeatedly for running a quasi commercial pirate station.? 
What he was doing up here I have no idea, probably there is another 
illegal station here. I need to tune in.

When I lived in Miami I had a Haitian guy calling me all the time 
wanting to build a legal LPFM station near the Miami Airport. I did a 
pro bono study for him and found only a low power slot in Homestead 
ideal for Mexican demographic, but not in right place for the Haitians. 
Still he called all the time, somebody told him I could work magic or 
something. Nice, but no.


On 2/12/2019 10:09 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote:
>
> I searched fairly extensively through NALs for other reasons and I was 
> struck by how hard individuals had to work to get fined by the FCC.? 
> Frankly I would not have the stamina.? I don?t specifically remember 
> seeing anything like this but I was looking for other things at the time.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Joe Leikhim <mailto:rhyolite at leikhim.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 12, 2019 9:07 PM
> *To: *Users of Asterisk app_rpt 
> <mailto:app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
>
> I am curious. Has the FCC ever issued a fine or NAL to any GMRS 
> operator for linking a repeater?? I tried searching for GMRS 
> violations once on the EB portal and found little in the way of GMRS 
> violations.
>
> On 2/12/2019 9:45 PM, John Heron wrote:
>
>     Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples
>     interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only
>     thing that did change.
>
>     If any part of a linked network touches a telco it?s in violation.
>
>     All the best, John Heron
>
>     561-334-6494
>
>     jh0932 at gmail.com <mailto:jh0932 at gmail.com>
>
>
>     On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com
>     <mailto:kc2irv at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot
>         point since that is not regulated.
>
>         On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616
>         <mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com
>         <mailto:mitchmitchell1616 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>             From what I remember,? they didn't want you bypassing the
>             long distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the
>             radio connecting a local call to RF and terminating to
>             another local call on the far end.? Once IP network is
>             involved,? the underlying physical network architecture
>             isn't relevant.? ?Lots of outdated rules still on the books.
>
>             Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>             -------- Original message --------
>
>             From: John Heron <jh0932 at gmail.com <mailto:jh0932 at gmail.com>>
>
>             Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00)
>
>             To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt
>             <app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>             <mailto:app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>>
>
>             Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network
>             using HAMVoIP
>
>             If it?s hooked to a telco it?s illegal. If you have DSL or
>             landline or any part of the system touches a telco then
>             the whole system is deemed illegal.
>
>             All the best, John Heron
>             561-334-6494
>             jh0932 at gmail.com <mailto:jh0932 at gmail.com>
>
>
>             > On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray at mminternet.com
>             <mailto:fwbray at mminternet.com> wrote:
>             >
>             > Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether
>             ? 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio
>             received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a
>             voting receiver.? It didn't concern the wisdom or other
>             issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one
>             can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely
>             over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio.
>             >
>             > The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there
>             are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as
>             lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might
>             not implement them.? If one wants to set up a linked
>             system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure
>             that it operates legally.? However, with any repeater,
>             there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able
>             to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be
>             using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur
>             radio systems.
>             >
>             > I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend
>             upon an Internet linked system if they thought it
>             through.? Unless you are using independent RF links under
>             your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a
>             calamity.
>             >
>             > KE6CD
>             >
>             >
>             >
>             >
>             >
>             >
>             >> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
>             >>
>             >> Here is a MAJOR problem....
>             >> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in
>             carrier
>             >> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission
>             does not extend
>             >> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on
>             top of other
>             >> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To
>             be fully
>             >> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the
>             channel for
>             >> activity BEFORE keying up!
>             >> All it would take is a written complaint against a
>             linked GMRS machine
>             >> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist
>             letter.
>             >> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to
>             fulfill it's
>             >> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world"
>             types are going to
>             >> disagree....but thats the way it is.
>             >
>             >
>             > _______________________________________________
>             > App_rpt-users mailing list
>             > App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>             <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>             >
>             http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>             >
>             > To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>             http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>             and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your
>             email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options
>             button"
>             > You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it
>             via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing,
>             please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
>             _______________________________________________
>             App_rpt-users mailing list
>             App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>             <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>             http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
>             To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>             http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>             and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your
>             email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options
>             button"
>             You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it
>             via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing,
>             please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             App_rpt-users mailing list
>             App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>             <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>             http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
>             To unsubscribe from this list please visit
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>             and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your
>             email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options
>             button"
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>             via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing,
>             please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         App_rpt-users mailing list
>         App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>         <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>         http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
>         To unsubscribe from this list please visit
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>         and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email
>         address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>         You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via
>         email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please
>         send a message to the list detailing the problem.
>
>     https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png
>     <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
>     	
>
>     Virus-free. www.avg.com
>     <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     App_rpt-users mailing list
>
>     App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>     <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>
>     http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
>     To unsubscribe from this list please visithttp://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users  and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>
>     You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Joe Leikhim
> Leikhim and Associates
> Communications Consultants
> Oviedo, Florida
> JLeikhim at Leikhim.com <mailto:JLeikhim at Leikhim.com>
> 407-982-0446
> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM <http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM

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From Bryan at bryanfields.net  Wed Feb 13 19:59:00 2019
From: Bryan at bryanfields.net (Bryan Fields)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 14:59:00 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Simulcast (was: posted on repeater builder)
In-Reply-To: <CAL8dJwqy=nL06y4mPDX09svUhkmc3P7aDPZ01OYcoU=m5wJu_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL8dJwqy=nL06y4mPDX09svUhkmc3P7aDPZ01OYcoU=m5wJu_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0b7e86a7-968a-f6eb-0694-c659d0c28103@bryanfields.net>

On 2/12/19 10:05 PM, Pierre Martel wrote:
> http://qrp-labs.com/progrock.html
> 
> looks like this could maybe usefull on multicasting???

Simulcasting is what this would be called.

There are a number of issues with simulcast, disciplining the transmitter is
just one of them.  This looks like it uses the 1pps output, not the 10 mhz
output from the GPS, which will not have the resolution to lock the reference
properly.

The SI labs chip used in the PCGM used the 10 mhz output, but these had their
own issues too.  The digital clock generators are harmonic rich, and really
need filtering to be used.

The traditional way to use the RTCM/voter is to remove the crystal reference
on the transmitter PLL replacing it with the generated GPS clock.  In most
radios this will remove the dual point modulation provided by a diode across
the crystal.  Now modulation balance will be way off, and it will be much
harder to get audio to line up.

Most stations which have provisions for external reference already will use a
10 MHz or 5 MHz clock and lock the reference to that.  The Quantar and Tait
will handle this just fine.  I'm been looking at the CDM radios (waris) for
this too, as they use dither modulation of the reference frequency.  I've not
had time to look further into it.

The other issue is the audio needs to be delayed the same through each
transmitter.  Some DSP based transmitters (SLR repeaters, etc) have a
non-deterministic delay in the audio.

73's
-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net


From jonathan.weirmeir at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 22:59:54 2019
From: jonathan.weirmeir at gmail.com (Jonathan Weirmeir)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 17:59:54 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Simulcast (was: posted on repeater builder)
In-Reply-To: <0b7e86a7-968a-f6eb-0694-c659d0c28103@bryanfields.net>
References: <CAL8dJwqy=nL06y4mPDX09svUhkmc3P7aDPZ01OYcoU=m5wJu_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <0b7e86a7-968a-f6eb-0694-c659d0c28103@bryanfields.net>
Message-ID: <CAAJyRn84YhvE04B290rPiLLS6ewk-yREhC=K+t1KQ9EzGgyVCA@mail.gmail.com>

Could this device give new life to old crystalled repeaters, such as
Motorola Micor, GE MASTR II, etc? If so, anyone have any notes to share?

73 DE KC8RYW

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 2:59 PM Bryan Fields <Bryan at bryanfields.net wrote:

> On 2/12/19 10:05 PM, Pierre Martel wrote:
> > http://qrp-labs.com/progrock.html
> >
> > looks like this could maybe usefull on multicasting???
>
> Simulcasting is what this would be called.
>
> There are a number of issues with simulcast, disciplining the transmitter
> is
> just one of them.  This looks like it uses the 1pps output, not the 10 mhz
> output from the GPS, which will not have the resolution to lock the
> reference
> properly.
>
> The SI labs chip used in the PCGM used the 10 mhz output, but these had
> their
> own issues too.  The digital clock generators are harmonic rich, and really
> need filtering to be used.
>
> The traditional way to use the RTCM/voter is to remove the crystal
> reference
> on the transmitter PLL replacing it with the generated GPS clock.  In most
> radios this will remove the dual point modulation provided by a diode
> across
> the crystal.  Now modulation balance will be way off, and it will be much
> harder to get audio to line up.
>
> Most stations which have provisions for external reference already will
> use a
> 10 MHz or 5 MHz clock and lock the reference to that.  The Quantar and Tait
> will handle this just fine.  I'm been looking at the CDM radios (waris) for
> this too, as they use dither modulation of the reference frequency.  I've
> not
> had time to look further into it.
>
> The other issue is the audio needs to be delayed the same through each
> transmitter.  Some DSP based transmitters (SLR repeaters, etc) have a
> non-deterministic delay in the audio.
>
> 73's
> --
> Bryan Fields
>
> 727-409-1194 - Voice
> http://bryanfields.net
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
>
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From Bryan at bryanfields.net  Wed Feb 13 23:47:26 2019
From: Bryan at bryanfields.net (Bryan Fields)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:47:26 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Simulcast (was: posted on repeater builder)
In-Reply-To: <CAAJyRn84YhvE04B290rPiLLS6ewk-yREhC=K+t1KQ9EzGgyVCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL8dJwqy=nL06y4mPDX09svUhkmc3P7aDPZ01OYcoU=m5wJu_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <0b7e86a7-968a-f6eb-0694-c659d0c28103@bryanfields.net>
 <CAAJyRn84YhvE04B290rPiLLS6ewk-yREhC=K+t1KQ9EzGgyVCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8faa85ea-0941-a2fb-82ad-3a0a0b65748b@bryanfields.net>

On 2/13/19 5:59 PM, Jonathan Weirmeir wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 2:59 PM Bryan Fields <Bryan at bryanfields.net wrote:
> 
<snip>
>> The traditional way to use the RTCM/voter is to remove the crystal
>> reference
>> on the transmitter PLL replacing it with the generated GPS clock.  In most
>> radios this will remove the dual point modulation provided by a diode
>> across
>> the crystal.  Now modulation balance will be way off, and it will be much
>> harder to get audio to line up.
>
>
> Could this device give new life to old crystalled repeaters, such as
> Motorola Micor, GE MASTR II, etc? If so, anyone have any notes to share?


I've fixed quoting for you.

No, this will not work, as the crystal is directly modulated in these old
radios; you would need some way to modulate the incoming clock signal.  Now
some higher end products you can do this with, but not the SIlabs chips.  If
you could directly modulate it, then you can do dual point modulation in a PLL
based radio too :)

It's a great option if you have a radio where you can replace the reference of
a PLL (and it has filtering in there), but not great to replace a directly
modulated crystal.

Micor's are dead, long live the synthesized radios :D

-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net


From Brad at trogdon.org  Sun Feb 17 21:35:07 2019
From: Brad at trogdon.org (Brad Trogdon)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 16:35:07 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
Message-ID: <CAKAuT6avF7Vz-3aV2pQM3eSZHX-rfUAr3JwMnXCeHb8A6Lb5kg@mail.gmail.com>

Reviewing this thread I need to ask for clarification as it appears some
comments are ill informed or are seeding to "stir a pot".

*John Heron*:  "*Bad news of pirated software*"...   cannot find a prior
post or comment. What pirated software are you referring?  Who is using
pirated software and what are they doing that is in violation of any rule?
Lastly what rule are they in violation of?

*Kirk Just Kirk*:  "*GMRS is a shared Channel.  Users must monitor before
they transmit*".  If repeaters are linked then any and all traffic within
range of one repeater is heard and transmitted to all others which may be
networked.   In the event the stations are simplex or low power their is no
fault if a repeater user talks and is not able to hear the distant
station.  Your argument seems you believe GMRS Repeaters are illegal
themselves and not simply because they may be networked.  Simplex
communications is very short distance. Repeater communication itsself could
be over a hundred miles even without networking.  The FCC allocated eight
(8) repeater frequencies and if they are used correctly the unfortunate act
of a repeater transmitting over non repeater users is a fault of the user
not selecting one of the many other frequencies that are available to them.

*John Heron*: "*If its hooked to a telco its illegal*".  Is it known that
anything GMRS is connected to Telco?  If 10 Repeaters are networked and 1
of 10 is connected to telco provided internet I.e. DSL the infraction is on
the one (1) offender not the other nine (9) whom are not.  Other than
inspection of the physical connections how can one review or confirm that
telco connections exist?  Please point to the rule that defines one
offender results in all participants being in violation of a rule?

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and courteous replies.

For transparency I own a wide coverage GMRS repeater that is 100% compliant
with the FCC rules. It has networking capabilities and Coverage of ~100
miles as it located at 4,000' in the Blue Ridge mountains of North Carolina.

-Brad Trogdon  W4INT / WQTG303
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From jh0932 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 14:42:58 2019
From: jh0932 at gmail.com (John Heron)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:42:58 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <CAKAuT6avF7Vz-3aV2pQM3eSZHX-rfUAr3JwMnXCeHb8A6Lb5kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKAuT6avF7Vz-3aV2pQM3eSZHX-rfUAr3JwMnXCeHb8A6Lb5kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1C59416C-D61F-414F-BC30-10DB63F27B8D@gmail.com>

Has anything been settled with HamVoIP as an attempt to run off with Jim?s work? As of this date I do not believe it has been.

In a shared repeater/simplex channel environment, it is always good to be able to monitor the input before keying up a repeater. In a linked system that?s not possible unless you do the BCLO in each repeater. Never saw that work out too well mixed mode.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.1749


So if you have an organized group or club engaged in linking GMRS repeaters together and one of them is in violation related to telco, does that mean the collective network is 9/10 legal?

John WA4FAP


> On Feb 17, 2019, at 4:35 PM, Brad Trogdon <Brad at trogdon.org> wrote:
> 
> Reviewing this thread I need to ask for clarification as it appears some comments are ill informed or are seeding to "stir a pot".
> 
> John Heron:  "Bad news of pirated software"...   cannot find a prior post or comment. What pirated software are you referring?  Who is using pirated software and what are they doing that is in violation of any rule?  Lastly what rule are they in violation of?
> 
> Kirk Just Kirk:  "GMRS is a shared Channel.  Users must monitor before they transmit".  If repeaters are linked then any and all traffic within range of one repeater is heard and transmitted to all others which may be networked.   In the event the stations are simplex or low power their is no fault if a repeater user talks and is not able to hear the distant station.  Your argument seems you believe GMRS Repeaters are illegal themselves and not simply because they may be networked.  Simplex communications is very short distance. Repeater communication itsself could be over a hundred miles even without networking.  The FCC allocated eight (8) repeater frequencies and if they are used correctly the unfortunate act of a repeater transmitting over non repeater users is a fault of the user not selecting one of the many other frequencies that are available to them. 
> 
> John Heron: "If its hooked to a telco its illegal".  Is it known that anything GMRS is connected to Telco?  If 10 Repeaters are networked and 1 of 10 is connected to telco provided internet I.e. DSL the infraction is on the one (1) offender not the other nine (9) whom are not.  Other than inspection of the physical connections how can one review or confirm that telco connections exist?  Please point to the rule that defines one offender results in all participants being in violation of a rule?
> 
> Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and courteous replies. 
> 
> For transparency I own a wide coverage GMRS repeater that is 100% compliant with the FCC rules. It has networking capabilities and Coverage of ~100 miles as it located at 4,000' in the Blue Ridge mountains of North Carolina.
> 
> -Brad Trogdon  W4INT / WQTG303
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 
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From Brad at trogdon.org  Mon Feb 18 17:20:09 2019
From: Brad at trogdon.org (Brad Trogdon)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:20:09 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <1C59416C-D61F-414F-BC30-10DB63F27B8D@gmail.com>
References: <CAKAuT6avF7Vz-3aV2pQM3eSZHX-rfUAr3JwMnXCeHb8A6Lb5kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1C59416C-D61F-414F-BC30-10DB63F27B8D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKAuT6bSwPsoEq1Va3Xi2ig7JCMQBNdaEdU_0H_mVD25aQqFUw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for the reply but you provide no answers to my very specific
questions.

Please see my reply to your questions and comments noted by ">>>"


Has anything been settled with HamVoIP as an attempt to run off with Jim?s
work? As of this date I do not believe it has been.
>>> What does HamVoIP have to do with the linking of GMRS Repeaters?

In a shared repeater/simplex channel environment, it is always good to be
able to monitor the input before keying up a repeater. In a linked system
that?s not possible unless you do the BCLO in each repeater. Never saw that
work out too well mixed mode.
>>> Not sure you understand how radios work.  If a station is strong /
close enough to the repeater to be heard then they are otherwise the users
of the repeater users will talk over the "Unheard users".

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.1749
>>> Cornell is not the authority. Federal Register in its entirety is
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/08/29/2017-17395/personal-radio-service-reform#sectno-citation-%E2%80%8995.1701
.  The URL which you provided references " telephone connection is
prohibited".  What leads you to believe that telephone is connected?  In my
specific situation Telco is not even connected to the building.  So no
chance of violation.

So if you have an organized group or club engaged in linking GMRS repeaters
together and one of them is in violation related to telco, does that mean
the collective network is 9/10 legal?
>>> 1. GMRS Repeater linking as an ability or practice is not an "Organized
Group".  2. No, the one person is the offender not the others whom are in
compliance.  Its against the rules to use foul language on radio
frequencies.  If another station is and you hear it but don't reciprocate
does that make you and offender of the rules?  No and that logic is silly
if you believe true.

>>> Are you questioning your local GMRS folks whom are charging for access
(Membership) to their closed system that is using apt_rpt (AllStar)?
*www.NorthGeorgiaGMRS.com
<http://www.northgeorgiagmrs.com/>* is a single organized group of 30 GMRS
Linked repeaters.  I'm not a betting person but I would venture to guess
that DSL is in the mix.


<<< FCC Correspondence via email on the topic. >>>
Case Id: HD0000002998556

Summary: Licensing Requirements

Description: There seems to be a lot of confusion as to whether linking the
audio of two or more GMRS repeaters via an internet connection is permitted
or prohibited under the part 95 rules.

Could we please get some sort of clarification as to whether this is a
strictly prohibited action per part 95 rules?

Thank you.

Solution Description: Dear Mr. *******,

GMRS stations may not be interconnected to the public switched telephone
network as per 95.127. However, proposing to use a VoIP link between the
two repeater sites is permissible if the link is considered
non-interconnected VoIP. VoIP can either be an interconnected VoIP service
or non-interconnected VoIP service, see the definitions below. It is my
understanding that if your internet provider is the cable company, it?s
fine; but if you have DSL or dial-up internet from the phone company, it
isn?t.

The second method using RF to link the two repeater sites is allowed so
long as the link meets the rules and limitations for fixed stations
pursuant to the Part 95 rules.

?64.601

(23) Non-interconnected VoIP service. The term ?non-interconnected VoIP
service??

(i) Means a service that?

(A) Enables real-time voice communications that originate from or terminate
to the user's location using Internet protocol or any successor protocol;
and

(B) Requires Internet protocol compatible customer premises equipment; and

(ii) Does not include any service that is an interconnected VoIP service.

?9.3

Interconnected VoIP service. An interconnected Voice over Internet protocol
(VoIP) service is a service that:

(1) Enables real-time, two-way voice communications;

(2) Requires a broadband connection from the user's location;

(3) Requires Internet protocol-compatible customer premises equipment
(CPE); and

(4) Permits users generally to receive calls that originate on the public
switched telephone network and to terminate calls to the public switched
telephone network.

The rules may be found at the following website:
https://www.fcc.gov/general/rules-regulations-title-47

Should you have any further questions, or need additional information,
please submit a request through https://esupport.fcc.gov/onlinerequest.htm or
call the FCC Licensing Support Center at 1-877-480-3201, selecting option 2
after the main menu.

Sincerely,

FCC Licensing Support Center
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From petem001 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 18:05:02 2019
From: petem001 at gmail.com (Pierre Martel)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 13:05:02 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <CAKAuT6bSwPsoEq1Va3Xi2ig7JCMQBNdaEdU_0H_mVD25aQqFUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKAuT6avF7Vz-3aV2pQM3eSZHX-rfUAr3JwMnXCeHb8A6Lb5kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1C59416C-D61F-414F-BC30-10DB63F27B8D@gmail.com>
 <CAKAuT6bSwPsoEq1Va3Xi2ig7JCMQBNdaEdU_0H_mVD25aQqFUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL8dJwqOgOMU5Q0NM9kevcGYLC80Hr+YnZqVOY749etB7CrEag@mail.gmail.com>

So from what I can understand. you can link them if the method to link is
not connected to a pstn line. Now If I am not too crazy, that would mean
that a user that have only a dsl line on site could link by RF (using an
wifi access point and a wifi client network card ) to by pass the
interconnection to the pstn.. So it is very easy to not be connected to a
pstn network. The othe part aboit interconnected voip system. It is easy to
build a voip system that have no link to any pstn network (allstarlink
being one) But it is as easy to connect that voip system to a pstn system.
Grey is predominant in that situation.

Pierre
VE2PF

Le lun. 18 f?vr. 2019 ? 12:20, Brad Trogdon <Brad at trogdon.org> a ?crit :

> Thank you for the reply but you provide no answers to my very specific
> questions.
>
> Please see my reply to your questions and comments noted by ">>>"
>
>
> Has anything been settled with HamVoIP as an attempt to run off with Jim?s
> work? As of this date I do not believe it has been.
> >>> What does HamVoIP have to do with the linking of GMRS Repeaters?
>
> In a shared repeater/simplex channel environment, it is always good to be
> able to monitor the input before keying up a repeater. In a linked system
> that?s not possible unless you do the BCLO in each repeater. Never saw that
> work out too well mixed mode.
> >>> Not sure you understand how radios work.  If a station is strong /
> close enough to the repeater to be heard then they are otherwise the users
> of the repeater users will talk over the "Unheard users".
>
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.1749
> >>> Cornell is not the authority. Federal Register in its entirety is
> https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/08/29/2017-17395/personal-radio-service-reform#sectno-citation-%E2%80%8995.1701
> .  The URL which you provided references " telephone connection is
> prohibited".  What leads you to believe that telephone is connected?  In my
> specific situation Telco is not even connected to the building.  So no
> chance of violation.
>
> So if you have an organized group or club engaged in linking GMRS
> repeaters together and one of them is in violation related to telco, does
> that mean the collective network is 9/10 legal?
> >>> 1. GMRS Repeater linking as an ability or practice is not an
> "Organized Group".  2. No, the one person is the offender not the others
> whom are in compliance.  Its against the rules to use foul language on
> radio frequencies.  If another station is and you hear it but don't
> reciprocate does that make you and offender of the rules?  No and that
> logic is silly if you believe true.
>
> >>> Are you questioning your local GMRS folks whom are charging for access
> (Membership) to their closed system that is using apt_rpt (AllStar)?   *www.NorthGeorgiaGMRS.com
> <http://www.northgeorgiagmrs.com/>* is a single organized group of 30
> GMRS Linked repeaters.  I'm not a betting person but I would venture to
> guess that DSL is in the mix.
>
>
> <<< FCC Correspondence via email on the topic. >>>
> Case Id: HD0000002998556
>
> Summary: Licensing Requirements
>
> Description: There seems to be a lot of confusion as to whether linking
> the audio of two or more GMRS repeaters via an internet connection is
> permitted or prohibited under the part 95 rules.
>
> Could we please get some sort of clarification as to whether this is a
> strictly prohibited action per part 95 rules?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Solution Description: Dear Mr. *******,
>
> GMRS stations may not be interconnected to the public switched telephone
> network as per 95.127. However, proposing to use a VoIP link between the
> two repeater sites is permissible if the link is considered
> non-interconnected VoIP. VoIP can either be an interconnected VoIP service
> or non-interconnected VoIP service, see the definitions below. It is my
> understanding that if your internet provider is the cable company, it?s
> fine; but if you have DSL or dial-up internet from the phone company, it
> isn?t.
>
> The second method using RF to link the two repeater sites is allowed so
> long as the link meets the rules and limitations for fixed stations
> pursuant to the Part 95 rules.
>
> ?64.601
>
> (23) Non-interconnected VoIP service. The term ?non-interconnected VoIP
> service??
>
> (i) Means a service that?
>
> (A) Enables real-time voice communications that originate from or
> terminate to the user's location using Internet protocol or any successor
> protocol; and
>
> (B) Requires Internet protocol compatible customer premises equipment; and
>
> (ii) Does not include any service that is an interconnected VoIP service.
>
> ?9.3
>
> Interconnected VoIP service. An interconnected Voice over Internet
> protocol (VoIP) service is a service that:
>
> (1) Enables real-time, two-way voice communications;
>
> (2) Requires a broadband connection from the user's location;
>
> (3) Requires Internet protocol-compatible customer premises equipment
> (CPE); and
>
> (4) Permits users generally to receive calls that originate on the public
> switched telephone network and to terminate calls to the public switched
> telephone network.
>
> The rules may be found at the following website:
> https://www.fcc.gov/general/rules-regulations-title-47
>
> Should you have any further questions, or need additional information,
> please submit a request through https://esupport.fcc.gov/onlinerequest.htm
>  or call the FCC Licensing Support Center at 1-877-480-3201, selecting
> option 2 after the main menu.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> FCC Licensing Support Center
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
>
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From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Mon Feb 18 18:15:54 2019
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 13:15:54 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <1C59416C-D61F-414F-BC30-10DB63F27B8D@gmail.com>
References: <CAKAuT6avF7Vz-3aV2pQM3eSZHX-rfUAr3JwMnXCeHb8A6Lb5kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1C59416C-D61F-414F-BC30-10DB63F27B8D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b57f4804-6afc-7eca-60e6-ef36a3cf6e60@leikhim.com>

John, Brad;

95.1749 is clearly a green light on network connection.

95.1745 appears to be a green light as well. However some folks will 
twist "may be operated" to be limited to turning the TX on and Off. 
Funny, I have a ham radio "Operators" license and it allows me to use 
voice mode. My DMV Operators license allows me to drive a car, I am not 
limited to turning the engine on and off.

Some folks will point to this (below) and say that you can only use the 
internet to turn on and off the repeater.

95.1733 Prohibited GMRS uses: (8) Messages which are both conveyed by a 
wireline control link and transmitted 
<https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=48a87e5c08caa689a51b8a364e509d5d&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:47:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:95:Subpart:E:95.1733> 
by a GMRS 
<https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=49eb3701c003c8a28c21e4846960cca0&term_occur=3&term_src=Title:47:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:95:Subpart:E:95.1733> 
station;.. This is a remnant of a very old rule dating back to an era 
where a "Control Operator" was a requirement for a repeater. Just as in 
Part 97, a positive method of turning off the "station" was required. 
Automatic control rendered that requirement obsolete. This remnant is a 
scriveners error.

I questioned this during the comment period of the recent NPRM and the 
FCC chose to shelve it because they had no time to research it. 
Unfortunately the FCC has been losing a lot of institutional knowledge 
as to why a rule existed in the first place which is why this remnant 
exists in the first place. I can cite a similar example from the 
archives. I am doing some research in my spare time to find where this 
rule branched from and why.

Bottom line; there has NEVER been any NAL or warning issued to any GMRS 
licensee for linking a GMRS repeater. Linking has been going on in some 
form or fashion for decades. In the 80's the GMRS systems in Chicago had 
satellite receivers. They were linked by some method. Search for 
yourself. None, nada.

The rate of FCC Enforcement Bureau activities against GMRS licensees has 
been minuscule compared to Part 97 and Part 90. Either GMRS licensees 
are very obedient or the FCC does not have GMRS on a priority.

As far as a DSL _miscreant_ on an otherwise compliant GMRS network. If 
you have 10 or 30 repeaters linked and one of those repeater operators 
happens to be using DSL, the others are under no obligation to police 
each other. Do you police every GMRS licensee who uses your repeater as 
to the Type Certification of their equipment? You might remind them, but 
you don't have to police that activity.

In my opinion 95.1745 and 95.1749 clearly indicate the FCC's intent to 
permit internet linking. Why else would they have gone to the effort to 
carve out those exceptions?

As far as the HamVoip thing I am very curious as to this whole thing. Is 
there a possibly a disinterested 3rd party who can explain this all in a 
separate thread? I am intrigued in how an individual choosing one over 
the other has personally "pirated" anything. It would seem that that 
legal argument rests between those distributing the free software not 
the end user.

"Why can't we all get along". - Rodney King

On 2/18/2019 9:42 AM, John Heron wrote:
> Has anything been settled with HamVoIP as an attempt to run off with 
> Jim?s work? As of this date I do not believe it has been.
>
> In a shared repeater/simplex channel environment, it is always good to 
> be able to monitor the input before keying up a repeater. In a linked 
> system that?s not possible unless you do the BCLO in each repeater. 
> Never saw that work out too well mixed mode.
>
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.1749
>
>
> So if you have an organized group or club engaged in linking GMRS 
> repeaters together and one of them is in violation related to telco, 
> does that mean the collective network is 9/10 legal?
>
> John WA4FAP
>
>
> On Feb 17, 2019, at 4:35 PM, Brad Trogdon <Brad at trogdon.org 
> <mailto:Brad at trogdon.org>> wrote:
>
>> Reviewing this thread I need to ask for clarification as it appears 
>> some comments are ill informed or are seeding to "stir a pot".
>>
>> *John Heron*: ?"/Bad news of pirated software/"... ? cannot find a 
>> prior post or comment. What pirated software are you referring?? Who 
>> is using pirated software and what are they doing that is in 
>> violation of any rule?? Lastly what rule are they in violation of?
>>
>> *Kirk Just Kirk*: ?"/GMRS is a shared Channel.? Users must monitor 
>> before they transmit/".? If repeaters are linked then any and all 
>> traffic within range of one repeater is heard and transmitted to all 
>> others which may be networked. ? In the event the stations are 
>> simplex or low power their is no fault if a repeater user talks and 
>> is not able to hear the distant station.? Your argument seems you 
>> believe GMRS Repeaters are illegal themselves and not simply because 
>> they may be networked.? Simplex communications is very short 
>> distance. Repeater communication itsself could be over a hundred 
>> miles even without networking.? The FCC allocated eight (8) repeater 
>> frequencies and if they are used correctly the unfortunate act of a 
>> repeater transmitting over non repeater users is a fault of the user 
>> not selecting one of the many other frequencies that are available to 
>> them.
>>
>> *John Heron*: "/If its hooked to a telco its illegal/".? Is it known 
>> that anything GMRS is connected to Telco?? If 10 Repeaters are 
>> networked and 1 of 10 is connected to telco provided internet I.e. 
>> DSL the infraction is on the one (1) offender not the other nine (9) 
>> whom are not.? Other than inspection of the physical connections how 
>> can one review or confirm that telco connections exist?? Please point 
>> to the rule that defines one offender results in all participants 
>> being in violation of a rule?
>>
>> Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and courteous replies.
>>
>> For transparency I own a wide coverage GMRS repeater that is 100% 
>> compliant with the FCC rules. It has networking capabilities and 
>> Coverage of ~100 miles as it located at 4,000' in the Blue Ridge 
>> mountains of North Carolina.
>>
>> -Brad Trogdon ?W4INT / WQTG303
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> App_rpt-users mailing list
>> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org 
>> <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit 
>> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users 
>> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address 
>> and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email 
>> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a 
>> message to the list detailing the problem.
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM

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From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Mon Feb 18 18:20:19 2019
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 13:20:19 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
In-Reply-To: <CAL8dJwqOgOMU5Q0NM9kevcGYLC80Hr+YnZqVOY749etB7CrEag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKAuT6avF7Vz-3aV2pQM3eSZHX-rfUAr3JwMnXCeHb8A6Lb5kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1C59416C-D61F-414F-BC30-10DB63F27B8D@gmail.com>
 <CAKAuT6bSwPsoEq1Va3Xi2ig7JCMQBNdaEdU_0H_mVD25aQqFUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL8dJwqOgOMU5Q0NM9kevcGYLC80Hr+YnZqVOY749etB7CrEag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fa5c8428-3bf7-5553-cb0e-13debe94316a@leikhim.com>

I am not sure that the PSTN or (North America numbering plan) NANP even 
exist in the regulatory world of the FCC today. A reread of the current 
rules finds those definitions no longer exist.


On 2/18/2019 1:05 PM, Pierre Martel wrote:
> So from what I can understand. you can link them if the method to link 
> is not connected to a pstn line. Now If I am not too crazy, that would 
> mean that a user that have only a dsl line on site could link by RF 
> (using an wifi access point and a wifi client network card ) to by 
> pass the interconnection to the pstn.. So it is very easy to not be 
> connected to a pstn network. The othe part aboit interconnected voip 
> system. It is easy to build a voip system that have no link to any 
> pstn network (allstarlink being one) But it is as easy to connect that 
> voip system to a pstn system. Grey is predominant in that situation.
>
> Pierre
> VE2PF
>
> Le?lun. 18 f?vr. 2019 ??12:20, Brad Trogdon <Brad at trogdon.org 
> <mailto:Brad at trogdon.org>> a ?crit?:
>
>     Thank you for the reply but you provide no answers to my very
>     specific questions.
>
>     Please see my reply to your questions and comments noted by ">>>"
>
>
>     Has anything been settled with HamVoIP as an attempt to run off
>     with Jim?s work? As of this date I do not believe it has been.
>     >>> What does HamVoIP have to do with the linking of GMRS Repeaters?
>
>     In a shared repeater/simplex channel environment, it is always
>     good to be able to monitor the input before keying up a repeater.
>     In a linked system that?s not possible unless you do the BCLO in
>     each repeater. Never saw that work out too well mixed mode.
>     >>> Not sure you understand how radios work.? If a station is
>     strong / close enough to the repeater to be heard then they are
>     otherwise the users of the repeater users will talk over the
>     "Unheard users".
>
>     https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.1749
>     >>> Cornell is not the authority. Federal Register in its entirety
>     is
>     https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/08/29/2017-17395/personal-radio-service-reform#sectno-citation-%E2%80%8995.1701
>     .? The URL which you provided references " telephone connection is
>     prohibited".? What leads you to believe that telephone is
>     connected?? In my specific situation Telco is not even connected
>     to the building.? So no chance of violation.
>
>     So if you have an organized group or club engaged in linking GMRS
>     repeaters together and one of them is in violation related to
>     telco, does that mean the collective network is 9/10 legal?
>     >>> 1. GMRS Repeater linking as an ability or practice is not an
>     "Organized Group".? 2. No, the one person is the offender not the
>     others whom are in compliance.? Its against the rules to use foul
>     language on radio frequencies.? If another station is and you hear
>     it but don't reciprocate does that make you and offender of the
>     rules?? No and that logic is silly if you believe true.
>
>     >>> Are you questioning your local GMRS folks whom are charging
>     for access (Membership) to their closed system that is using
>     apt_rpt (AllStar)? *www.NorthGeorgiaGMRS.com
>     <http://www.northgeorgiagmrs.com/>* is a single organized group of
>     30 GMRS Linked repeaters.? I'm not a betting person but I would
>     venture to guess that DSL is in the mix.
>
>
>     <<< FCC Correspondence via email on the topic. >>>
>     Case Id: HD0000002998556
>
>     Summary: Licensing Requirements
>
>     Description: There seems to be a lot of confusion as to whether
>     linking the audio of two or more GMRS repeaters via an internet
>     connection is permitted or prohibited under the part 95 rules.
>
>     Could we please get some sort of clarification as to whether this
>     is a strictly prohibited action per part 95 rules?
>
>     Thank you.
>
>     Solution Description: Dear Mr. *******,
>
>     GMRS stations may not be interconnected to the public switched
>     telephone network as per 95.127. However, proposing to use a VoIP
>     link between the two repeater sites is permissible if the link is
>     considered non-interconnected VoIP. VoIP can either be an
>     interconnected VoIP service or non-interconnected VoIP service,
>     see the definitions below. It is my understanding that if your
>     internet provider is the cable company, it?s fine; but if you have
>     DSL or dial-up internet from the phone company, it isn?t.
>
>     The second method using RF to link the two repeater sites is
>     allowed so long as the link meets the rules and limitations for
>     fixed stations pursuant to the Part 95 rules.
>
>     ?64.601
>
>     (23) Non-interconnected VoIP service. The term ?non-interconnected
>     VoIP service??
>
>     (i) Means a service that?
>
>     (A) Enables real-time voice communications that originate from or
>     terminate to the user's location using Internet protocol or any
>     successor protocol; and
>
>     (B) Requires Internet protocol compatible customer premises
>     equipment; and
>
>     (ii) Does not include any service that is an interconnected VoIP
>     service.
>
>     ?9.3
>
>     Interconnected VoIP service. An interconnected Voice over Internet
>     protocol (VoIP) service is a service that:
>
>     (1) Enables real-time, two-way voice communications;
>
>     (2) Requires a broadband connection from the user's location;
>
>     (3) Requires Internet protocol-compatible customer premises
>     equipment (CPE); and
>
>     (4) Permits users generally to receive calls that originate on the
>     public switched telephone network and to terminate calls to the
>     public switched telephone network.
>
>     The rules may be found at the following
>     website:https://www.fcc.gov/general/rules-regulations-title-47
>
>     Should you have any further questions, or need additional
>     information, please submit a request
>     throughhttps://esupport.fcc.gov/onlinerequest.htmor call the FCC
>     Licensing Support Center at 1-877-480-3201, selecting option 2
>     after the main menu.
>
>     Sincerely,
>
>     FCC Licensing Support Center
>     _______________________________________________
>     App_rpt-users mailing list
>     App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
>     <mailto:App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org>
>     http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
>     To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>     http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>     and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email
>     address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
>     You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
>     confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a
>     message to the list detailing the problem.
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM

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From Bryan at bryanfields.net  Mon Feb 18 19:54:33 2019
From: Bryan at bryanfields.net (Bryan Fields)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 14:54:33 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Other networks using AllStar & app_rpt
Message-ID: <d78e12b9-49f0-d166-a04f-56cf522d7c4e@bryanfields.net>

I've been asked about this by several people, and there are several different
issues at play here.

1. app_rpt/Asterisk (aka AllStar) can be used to link any repeaters you want.
 A group can setup another network if they want and use the software to link
their systems.  The GPL license permits this and provides for people using
software in any way they want.  This is the great freedom of open source, no
other amateur repeater linking project permits using their software like this.

2. Legalities of linking non-amateur repeaters are beyond the scope of this
list (IMO).

If you think it's legal to link your repeaters using app_rpt, have at it.
This is between you and the local regulatory authority.  This may be legal in
some areas and not in others.  While most are based in the US, we have users
all over the world where it may be legal in their jurisdiction.

If you distribute app_rpt/Asterisk/AllStar for this, you need to comply with
the license and make the source available.  If you base it on pirated
software, well then you're still on the hook to provide the source too.  As
you can't do this, you have no rights to distribute the software.

If you're building a private network grab ASL 1.01 or the source and roll your
own.  It's all GPL, change it to your needs and release the source, and you're
free to build your own network.  Post here if you do, we'd love to hear of it.

73's
-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net


From petem001 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 20:55:42 2019
From: petem001 at gmail.com (Pierre Martel)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 15:55:42 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Other networks using AllStar & app_rpt
In-Reply-To: <d78e12b9-49f0-d166-a04f-56cf522d7c4e@bryanfields.net>
References: <d78e12b9-49f0-d166-a04f-56cf522d7c4e@bryanfields.net>
Message-ID: <CAL8dJwoB9QcOWZCag_AYJ38EixGyZera1U2hN849dtzMXSN4qA@mail.gmail.com>

It is already done in Quebec. there is about 15 repeater linked to a
private network by VPN and all the repeater are running plain vanilla ASL.
The sysop of those repeater dont want inter connection to the outside and
it is perfectly fine like that.

They use fix IP adress in a class A 10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255 network and
the vpn take care of keeping this all linked even if the internet
connection change IP adress. They even have a script that download the
configuration files from an ftp server every night so if they want to add a
repeater they change the files in one place and they all get new files in
25 hours then when the change need to be live they send a reload command to
every repeater by a small script that connect by ssh then go into the
asterisk cli and issue the reload command.. Since they are all on a local
network an operator only need to connect to the vnp and he have access to
every repeater .

The server is a vps in a data center. it does not even have asterisk on it.

A few years ago there was a project to do a kind of parallel ASL for the
french community. but it never was done.

Pierre
VE2PF



Le lun. 18 f?vr. 2019 ? 14:54, Bryan Fields <Bryan at bryanfields.net> a
?crit :

> I've been asked about this by several people, and there are several
> different
> issues at play here.
>
> 1. app_rpt/Asterisk (aka AllStar) can be used to link any repeaters you
> want.
>  A group can setup another network if they want and use the software to
> link
> their systems.  The GPL license permits this and provides for people using
> software in any way they want.  This is the great freedom of open source,
> no
> other amateur repeater linking project permits using their software like
> this.
>
> 2. Legalities of linking non-amateur repeaters are beyond the scope of this
> list (IMO).
>
> If you think it's legal to link your repeaters using app_rpt, have at it.
> This is between you and the local regulatory authority.  This may be legal
> in
> some areas and not in others.  While most are based in the US, we have
> users
> all over the world where it may be legal in their jurisdiction.
>
> If you distribute app_rpt/Asterisk/AllStar for this, you need to comply
> with
> the license and make the source available.  If you base it on pirated
> software, well then you're still on the hook to provide the source too.  As
> you can't do this, you have no rights to distribute the software.
>
> If you're building a private network grab ASL 1.01 or the source and roll
> your
> own.  It's all GPL, change it to your needs and release the source, and
> you're
> free to build your own network.  Post here if you do, we'd love to hear of
> it.
>
> 73's
> --
> Bryan Fields
>
> 727-409-1194 - Voice
> http://bryanfields.net
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press
> the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to
> the list detailing the problem.
>
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From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Tue Feb 19 20:36:21 2019
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:36:21 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Other networks using AllStar & app_rpt
In-Reply-To: <d78e12b9-49f0-d166-a04f-56cf522d7c4e@bryanfields.net>
References: <d78e12b9-49f0-d166-a04f-56cf522d7c4e@bryanfields.net>
Message-ID: <22daf731-477d-a06f-d442-8f3651e6e954@leikhim.com>

That is helpful information. I have been lurking here a long time while 
building my "Uber Repeater" project and linking to another is on the 
long list. Programming is not my strong suit. Ask me anything else about 
RF and I can figure it out.


On 2/18/2019 2:54 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
> I've been asked about this by several people, and there are several different
> issues at play here.
>
> 1. app_rpt/Asterisk (aka AllStar) can be used to link any repeaters you want.
>   A group can setup another network if they want and use the software to link
> their systems.  The GPL license permits this and provides for people using
> software in any way they want.  This is the great freedom of open source, no
> other amateur repeater linking project permits using their software like this.
>
> 2. Legalities of linking non-amateur repeaters are beyond the scope of this
> list (IMO).
>
> If you think it's legal to link your repeaters using app_rpt, have at it.
> This is between you and the local regulatory authority.  This may be legal in
> some areas and not in others.  While most are based in the US, we have users
> all over the world where it may be legal in their jurisdiction.
>
> If you distribute app_rpt/Asterisk/AllStar for this, you need to comply with
> the license and make the source available.  If you base it on pirated
> software, well then you're still on the hook to provide the source too.  As
> you can't do this, you have no rights to distribute the software.
>
> If you're building a private network grab ASL 1.01 or the source and roll your
> own.  It's all GPL, change it to your needs and release the source, and you're
> free to build your own network.  Post here if you do, we'd love to hear of it.
>
> 73's

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM



From markjohnston73 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 19:03:42 2019
From: markjohnston73 at gmail.com (Mark Johnston)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 11:03:42 -0800
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Choppy Audio
In-Reply-To: <00d201d4b6a2$81667640$843362c0$@org>
References: <CAARNdJEw7z1qPtTM3YeFGQW+F6_wbFqWMEm6LGp+7cZvFevhrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <008401d4b689$c33719d0$49a54d70$@org>
 <CAARNdJHtfRgLE6fLD2+ZuY9o18nKCZbeg=ukWwqiuTdanEKvrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <00d201d4b6a2$81667640$843362c0$@org>
Message-ID: <CAARNdJGzGjgq4K1TJPWBoJHt5ODdrigJfkocjW8eV36sqjP-ow@mail.gmail.com>

Just thought I would run this test, ran for 5,000 count. the summary...
This is while connected to an active node and there is traffic going at
that time,
The command was:   *dahdi_test -c 5000*

*--- Results after 4883 passes ---*

*Best: 100.000% -- Worst: 99.207% -- Average: 99.950227%*

*Cumulative Accuracy (not per pass): 99.996*




*Thought I would see if anyone had more ideas what is going on here? Why
the audio gets choppy sometimes, even the local telemetry/ID gets that
way. *
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From Benjamin at Project23D.com  Sat Feb 23 02:16:16 2019
From: Benjamin at Project23D.com (Benjamin Naber)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 20:16:16 -0600
Subject: [App_rpt-users] 6m Net Invitation, Tuesday Nights
In-Reply-To: <1252040452.2259786.1549971659637@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1252040452.2259786.1549971659637.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1252040452.2259786.1549971659637@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1550888176.21795.8.camel@Project23D.com>

the link is broke.

There were pictures of the antenna and its install, have they been
removed?



-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Tubbs (KD2SL) <kd2sl at yahoo.com>
Reply-to: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-
users at lists.allstarlink.org>
To: app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
Subject: [App_rpt-users] 6m Net Invitation, Tuesday Nights
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 11:40:59 +0000 (UTC)

Hello,

In Syracuse, NY we have what is likely the "most expensive 6m repeater
antenna" in the world, a former TV broadcast antenna.? You can read
more about it at?http://www.kd2sl.com.??

The reason I'm bringing this up is because every Tuesday night at 7:00
pm EST we have a 6 meter net, with two 6m repeaters linked: 53.67 in
Syracuse, and 53.05 in Auburn.? And now that AllStar node 47460 has
been installed on the 53.67 repeater, I'd like to invite anyone with an
AllStar-connected 6 meter repeater to join us.

The net runs about an hour, bringing together an average of 20-25 6
meter enthusiasts for casual chat on the Magic Band.? Feel free to
connect your 6m repeater to node 47460 every Tuesday night at 7:00 pm
EST.? And please check in to say hello!

73 - Kevin KD2SL



_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org
/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom
of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or
edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message
to the list detailing the problem.?


From w3vmc at outlook.com  Sat Feb 23 03:27:21 2019
From: w3vmc at outlook.com (Daniel Hileman)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 03:27:21 +0000
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Allstar node putting out digital noise
In-Reply-To: <1550888176.21795.8.camel@Project23D.com>
References: <1252040452.2259786.1549971659637.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1252040452.2259786.1549971659637@mail.yahoo.com>,
 <1550888176.21795.8.camel@Project23D.com>
Message-ID: <SN6PR06MB526126A7DF89948665E8DCEEE0780@SN6PR06MB5261.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi everyone,
I have an alinco 135 and RIM alinco that are working normally except for one thing. When you transmit into it, the output is all digital ?hash.? Everything was great till my rim alinco stopped working and I replaced it with a new one, and now its putting out no ?audio? just digital sounding noise. Any ideas?
73
Dan W3VMC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2019, at 8:16 PM, Benjamin Naber <Benjamin at project23d.com> wrote:
> 
> the link is broke.
> 
> There were pictures of the antenna and its install, have they been
> removed?
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Tubbs (KD2SL) <kd2sl at yahoo.com>
> Reply-to: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-
> users at lists.allstarlink.org>
> To: app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> Subject: [App_rpt-users] 6m Net Invitation, Tuesday Nights
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 11:40:59 +0000 (UTC)
> 
> Hello,
> 
> In Syracuse, NY we have what is likely the "most expensive 6m repeater
> antenna" in the world, a former TV broadcast antenna.  You can read
> more about it at http://www.kd2sl.com.  
> 
> The reason I'm bringing this up is because every Tuesday night at 7:00
> pm EST we have a 6 meter net, with two 6m repeaters linked: 53.67 in
> Syracuse, and 53.05 in Auburn.  And now that AllStar node 47460 has
> been installed on the 53.67 repeater, I'd like to invite anyone with an
> AllStar-connected 6 meter repeater to join us.
> 
> The net runs about an hour, bringing together an average of 20-25 6
> meter enthusiasts for casual chat on the Magic Band.  Feel free to
> connect your 6m repeater to node 47460 every Tuesday night at 7:00 pm
> EST.  And please check in to say hello!
> 
> 73 - Kevin KD2SL
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org
> /cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom
> of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or
> edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message
> to the list detailing the problem. 
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> 
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. 

From Ramesh at va3uv.com  Sat Feb 23 20:28:11 2019
From: Ramesh at va3uv.com (Ramesh Dhami)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 15:28:11 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Unable to start a hub node using 'dahdi/pseudo' on
 a Pi 3 B
Message-ID: <39775dcf-82cb-18c4-1a3e-ee9c53620426@va3uv.com>

Hi Folks:

I am trying to restart a hub node (on a Pi3B).? I am seeing the 
following errors when manually starting asterisk (asterisk -cvvvv):

<snip>

[Feb 23 15:16:51] WARNING[1112]: app_rpt.c:22240 rpt_master: rpt_thread 
restarted on node 2200
[Feb 23 15:16:51] WARNING[1141]: chan_dahdi.c:928 dahdi_open: Unable to 
open '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
[Feb 23 15:16:51] ERROR[1141]: chan_dahdi.c:7906 chandup: Unable to dup 
channel: No such file or directory
rpt:Sorry unable to obtain Rx channel
[Feb 23 15:16:53] ERROR[1112]: app_rpt.c:22223 rpt_master: Continual RPT 
thread restarts, killing Asterisk

</snip>

I confess that I have recently installed Mirth Connect on the same Pi 
(this is the first reboot since doing so)....

Indeed there is no folder /dev/dahdi.

Any ideas how to recover?


OT:? If anyone is using Mirth for any HL7 / FHIR stuff, I am very 
interested in talking to you! ;)

Thanks!

Ramesh.

VA3UV / KN4RSD




From Ramesh at va3uv.com  Sat Feb 23 23:16:47 2019
From: Ramesh at va3uv.com (Ramesh Dhami)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 18:16:47 -0500
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Unable to start a hub node using 'dahdi/pseudo'
 on a Pi 3 B
In-Reply-To: <39775dcf-82cb-18c4-1a3e-ee9c53620426@va3uv.com>
References: <39775dcf-82cb-18c4-1a3e-ee9c53620426@va3uv.com>
Message-ID: <181b3fc3-f5fa-c25a-1cc4-127a12883c2c@va3uv.com>

On 2019-02-23 3:28 p.m., Ramesh Dhami wrote:
> Hi Folks:
>
> I am trying to restart a hub node (on a Pi3B).? I am seeing the 
> following errors when manually starting asterisk (asterisk -cvvvv):
>
> <snip>
>
> [Feb 23 15:16:51] WARNING[1112]: app_rpt.c:22240 rpt_master: 
> rpt_thread restarted on node 2200
> [Feb 23 15:16:51] WARNING[1141]: chan_dahdi.c:928 dahdi_open: Unable 
> to open '/dev/dahdi/pseudo': No such file or directory
> [Feb 23 15:16:51] ERROR[1141]: chan_dahdi.c:7906 chandup: Unable to 
> dup channel: No such file or directory
> rpt:Sorry unable to obtain Rx channel
> [Feb 23 15:16:53] ERROR[1112]: app_rpt.c:22223 rpt_master: Continual 
> RPT thread restarts, killing Asterisk
>
>
Resolved!

Running "dpkg-reconfigure asl-dahdi-linux-dkms" got it going again!

Ramesh.

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From Benjamin at Project23D.com  Thu Feb 28 01:10:19 2019
From: Benjamin at Project23D.com (Benjamin Naber)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:10:19 -0600
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Limey Unix - LATE REPLY
In-Reply-To: <C37937BC-CCC6-4BE3-A38F-21C9B669CBD2@nccom.com>
References: <C37937BC-CCC6-4BE3-A38F-21C9B669CBD2@nccom.com>
Message-ID: <1551316219.25768.5.camel@Project23D.com>

Didn't see the message until now...

if I recall correctly, it was:
savecfg

the executable(program/script) was located in the same folder as
firstime.sh, radio-tune-menu, ...

I *think* the sought after command, along with the others, was located
in:
/usr/sbin



Benjamin, KB9LFZ



-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Lesser <todd at nccom.com>
Reply-to: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-
users at lists.allstarlink.org>
To: app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Limey Unix
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:50:45 -0800

Does anyone know how to save the network configuration in Limey
Linux????My node is currently set up as static IP and I want to change
it to DHCP.
I run net setup but when I reboot, it loses it all.
I assume there is a command that will save it to flash memory.

Does anyone know what that is?

Thanks


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From ke6pcv at cal-net.org  Thu Feb 28 03:52:30 2019
From: ke6pcv at cal-net.org (Marshall Oldham)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:52:30 -0800
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Limey Unix - LATE REPLY
In-Reply-To: <1551316219.25768.5.camel@Project23D.com>
References: <C37937BC-CCC6-4BE3-A38F-21C9B669CBD2@nccom.com>
 <1551316219.25768.5.camel@Project23D.com>
Message-ID: <000701d4cf19$07ba7820$172f6860$@org>

Actually very close but it is svcfg

73

Marshall - ke6pcv 

-----Original Message-----
From: App_rpt-users [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces at lists.allstarlink.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Naber
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 5:10 PM
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Limey Unix - LATE REPLY

Didn't see the message until now...

if I recall correctly, it was:
savecfg

the executable(program/script) was located in the same folder as
firstime.sh, radio-tune-menu, ...

I *think* the sought after command, along with the others, was located
in:
/usr/sbin



Benjamin, KB9LFZ



-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Lesser <todd at nccom.com>
Reply-to: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-
users at lists.allstarlink.org>
To: app_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Limey Unix
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:50:45 -0800

Does anyone know how to save the network configuration in Limey
Linux?   My node is currently set up as static IP and I want to change
it to DHCP.
I run net setup but when I reboot, it loses it all.
I assume there is a command that will save it to flash memory.

Does anyone know what that is?

Thanks


_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users at lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org
/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom
of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or
edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message
to the list detailing the problem. 
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.