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more thing, if I may.</DIV>
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<DIV>Can I use a USB and a Beagle Board or does I need to use a RTCM for voting?
The cost comes out about the same but the Beagle has more options like the
ability to stream the audio to an Icecast server.</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=rpt2@chuck.midlandsnetworking.com
href="mailto:rpt2@chuck.midlandsnetworking.com">Chuck Henderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2015 8:44 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=allstar@controlservers.net
href="mailto:allstar@controlservers.net">R. Wayne</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [App_rpt-users] Motorola MSF / Voting /
Receivers;</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>With the RTCM at each receiver and with it receiving unfiltered
discriminator audio, you can get perfect voting. The amount of delay is
going to need to be just a little more than the path with the greatest
delay. For a repeater that uses all private point to point 5 ghz links I
have an almost constant 2 ms delay due to the data link, but once in a while it
goes up to 30ms. But for a repeater that uses the Internet I have delays
of 30 to 140ms for the network path and once in a while up to 300ms on the
Internet. On the all private links repeater I can set it for about 100ms
of overall delay and have no problems, but for the Internet connected system I
have to set it for 400ms overall delay. The delay is sometimes noticed on
unkey when a person hears the last syllable of what they said. And it
makes it impossible for a person using 2 radios in their car to listen to the
output of the repeater while transmitting into the repeater input, unless they
have an amazing brain that can deal with hearing them self delayed and still be
able to talk. I can't.
<DIV>So just give up listening to yourself talk and the delay is no issue.
No audio is lost due to the delay.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I did think about the doubling that can happen due to the delay, so I
modified the main site so that as soon as it detects carrier, and even before it
detects PL, it keys the transmitter through a timer for 500ms max, that lets
everyone listening to the repeater know that someone may be about to talk so
don't double. If PL is not detected and the AllstarLink never sends a key
down signal, then the transmitter drops after the first 500 ms. It has
worked great at almost completely eliminating doubling. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for the main transmit site, it will have a receiver and a transmitter
connected to the same RTCM and if the RTCM looses contact with the asterisk
system due to a network outage, then the repeater becomes a single site repeater
with a simple CW ID'r and preset hang time. When the network is restored
then the AllStarLink controller computer can take over again.</DIV>
<DIV>Chuck WB9UUS<BR>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 9:19 AM, R. Wayne <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:allstar@controlservers.net"
target=_blank>allstar@controlservers.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV>Great answer, Jeff! We KNOW that the MSF is designed for a 2nd receiver
tray and it would be nice if we had some direction. At least a schematic on
that sub-section. Nope. “It won’t work. Don’t waste your time... (or ours by
asking.) Thank you for your reply.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is another say that we can go. We can use a RC-210 controller or
even a Zetron 38, a RC-100 – any number of external hardware controllers. But
then how will Allstar like this? With the RC210 we can put the repeater on
port 1, the receiver on port 2, and the RTCM on port 3 and then tell them all
to talk to one another? We even have some Vertex VX-4100’s that have 20 KHz
channel spacing and similar spec’s as the CDM750. Wouldn’t it be great to just
solve the problem rather than adding more hardware complexity?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It seems that Allstar is the solution as long as we can speed up the
audio delay. But then again if we vote will it matter? I mean , won’t they all
have some delay caused by the internet itself? Our biggest concern is with the
“primary” receiver going out to the internet and then back just for the
repeater to TX. What if the internet goes down? So then would our repeater.
Our site vendor has 25 sites connected over 5.8 GHz and if we used a VPN this
wouldn't be an issue. But we have receivers that will be remoted and this will
require internet rather than a VPN right?</DIV>
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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=k0jsc.jeff@gmail.com
href="mailto:k0jsc.jeff@gmail.com" target=_blank>Jeff Carrier</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2015 6:49 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=allstar@controlservers.net
href="mailto:allstar@controlservers.net" target=_blank>R. Wayne</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [App_rpt-users] Motorola MSF / Voting /
Receivers;</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>I'll leave part 2 to one of the experts but as for part 1
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The CDM makes a great receiver. Though it's less desirable to me
than an MTR2000 those just aren't in the budget. Its certainly easier to
interface to than the MASTR III's that I have on the bench now. It is a
mobile radio but in my installation I have 12 commercial UHF DMR MTR3000's all
running nearly 100 watts at the same site as my UHF receiver and they're only
separated horizontally and not vertically. My CDM receiver also has a
preamp and I've had almost no trouble. I did have a mixing product but
only when a 2 meter remote base transmitted on 144.890. I'll add I have
a pretty crappy duplexer on this but it is BP/BR and also has a pre-selector
between the preamp and the receiver. Still, they seem to have a "decent"
front end for a mobile radio. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>73 de K0JSC</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 7:33 AM, R. Wayne <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:allstar@controlservers.net"
target=_blank>allstar@controlservers.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>We have learned the hard way that our Motorola MSF 5000 repeaters with
30 KHz channel spacing and a 2 MHz wide front-end just cannot handle
southern California’s 15 KHz channel spacing. We’ve tried using the 15 KHz
replacement crystals with miserable results. We have not located 20 KHz
crystals and even if we could we don't know what circuit changes would be
necessary to tailor the audio response. We have asked on a site how to
interface a Motorola CDM 750 mobile transceiver with 20 KHz channel spacing
and instead of an answer we’re told it won’t work. It’s a mobile. Don’t
waste your time. Well, its our time to experiment. I know of several popular
repeaters here on SoCal built using the CDM 750 / 1250.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>OK. About Allstar. It seems if we can’t get an answer about directly
interfacing a second receiver to a MSF 5000 that is designed for a second
receiver we need to look at how Allstar can allow us to use an external
receiver. Besides the obvious of a USB or RTCM is there any way to create
like a LOCALHOST situation at the repeater site where we can almost
eliminate any audio delay? We know that, and plan to use, off-site voting to
cover our rather large footprint. That will have to be on an external
Internet IP rather than an internal IP (192.168.x.x). Can we have both? An
internal network and an external network? Or do we have to use one network
especially if we plan on doing voting?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you in advance.</DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#888888>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>R. Wayne</DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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