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The Digitac Voter reconstructs received data in the Securenet
digital voice mode only. On mixed mode systems, the analog audio is
processed in same way the SpectraTac worked, it is an analog VF
channel. The Astro-Tac processes same way but is for ASTRO or P25
digital modes. <br>
<br>
In the analog world, if you want to go over the IP and you know the
exact time at each site and at the voter (via GPS), the voter can
buffer several hundred of milliseconds and wait for all the
straggling audio "bits" to arrive. In theory, if later than the
buffer depth, those late sites might be ignored.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/30/2016 4:53 PM, KM4NRJ FLORIDA
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADQSW30-xhqan0702KWjt+XYG7YtyndAgKX2=vuQdBrR29Bw+g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Maybe I am way off here and there are plans to use
voting for digital down the road like Digitac Motorola does.
They go further and actually reconstruct packets that fail from
a site using data from all sites. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Having said that, in the analog world using Moto
SpectraTac comparators for many years it wasn't that noticeable
because all was analog from every field receiver in a 1247
square mile County. </p>
<p dir="ltr">With the ADC to DAC process, I shudder at thinking of
a timed referencing synchronization of various source sites
using public Internet transport. I mean even in the "fire and
forget" world of UDP protocol, the network cannot cope. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Unless you are talking private links using microwave
unlicensed spectrum technology, I think it may be a hair puller.
</p>
<p dir="ltr">Interesting project though. </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 30, 2016 12:30, <<a
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Non-RTCM voter, where? (Jeff Ackerman)<br>
2. Re: Non-RTCM voter, where? (Bryan Fields)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 09:28:32 -0700<br>
From: Jeff Ackerman <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kg6uyz@gmail.com">kg6uyz@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Joe Leikhim <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com">rhyolite@leikhim.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@meshnetworks.co.nz">info@meshnetworks.co.nz</a>,
app_rpt mailing list<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Non-RTCM voter, where?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:CAKmcLtJRAnL_-rPHYQHs6cq-eyXY3FmxC-FkNU9rbWUU9%2BNkYQ@mail.gmail.com">CAKmcLtJRAnL_-rPHYQHs6cq-eyXY3FmxC-FkNU9rbWUU9+NkYQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
XIPAR does not do GPS timing of the audio so there will be no
timing of<br>
audio. Its called "simple voter", no frills. XIPAR simply
selects the<br>
best receiver based on DSP signal strength measurements.<br>
<br>
On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Joe Leikhim <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com">rhyolite@leikhim.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Without GPS, how does XIPAR deal with jitter and network
latency?<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 3/30/2016 11:25 AM, Jeff Ackerman wrote:<br>
><br>
> If you looking for the alternative IP voting of the
varuious app_rpt<br>
> flavors you can try XIPAR: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter</a>><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter</a><br>
><br>
> It wont be as seamless of voting as a RTCM, but its much
simpler, doesnt<br>
> require anything more then PC's, the IP backhaul and usb
radio interfaces<br>
> with radios capable of giving discriminator audio.<br>
><br>
> Conventional hardware voting comparators could work but
require the<br>
> backhaul, which in most commercial applications is 4 wire
e&m voice<br>
> circuits using either tone signaling or e&m
signaling. (This method of<br>
> voting is done outside of allstar/app_rpt.)<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Joe Leikhim <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com">rhyolite@leikhim.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Here are some products to start with;<br>
>><br>
>> There is the Raven M4x<br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ravencomm.com/documents/products_doc3_23.pdf"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ravencomm.com/documents/products_doc3_23.pdf</a><br>
>><br>
>> Raytheon JPS SNV-12 (Though the future of this
product is up in the air,<br>
>> it was the defacto standard. Uses 600 ohm VF
circuits, IP connectivity<br>
>> needs to be overlaid)<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/userfiles/file/appnotes/vSnv12App.pdf"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/userfiles/file/appnotes/vSnv12App.pdf</a><br>
>><br>
>> Motorola Spectra Tac (Obsolete Now Motorola has
pretty much abandoned<br>
>> analog FM technology. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits,)<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra-tac/spectratac-index.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra-tac/spectratac-index.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> The above voters all use some method of signal/noise
voting. The JPS<br>
>> SNV-12 and the Raven M4X use DSP to make decision,
while the Spectra Tac<br>
>> was pretty much an analog noise measurement vs a
status tone/audio AGC<br>
>> level. The SpectraTac does not support non-Motorola
receivers unless you<br>
>> know the "secret sauce" which I am privy to.<br>
>><br>
>> This site has some practical examples of projects
that are simulcast, but<br>
>> by design incorporate the SNV-12 voters.<br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.simulcastsolutions.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.simulcastsolutions.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> Are you looking for some more in depth RF design
aspects of receiver<br>
>> voting? I can help perhaps.<br>
>><br>
>> Joe<br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.leikhim.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.leikhim.com</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 3/8/2016 5:20 AM, Steve Wright wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> On 05/03/16 06:00, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mike@midnighteng.com">mike@midnighteng.com</a>
wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> FYI There are RTCM /voter systems for app_rpt
if you want to do it<br>
>>>> right.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>> Is there an example voting-RX project somewhere I
can read about?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Non-RTCM please. I know about the RTCM and I'm
looking at alternatives.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Many thanks,<br>
>>> Steve<br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> App_rpt-users mailing list<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit<br>
>>> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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>>> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing,
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>>> the list detailing the problem.<br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Joe Leikhim<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Leikhim and Associates<br>
>><br>
>> Communications Consultants<br>
>><br>
>> Oviedo, Florida<br>
>><br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:JLeikhim@Leikhim.com">JLeikhim@Leikhim.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:407-982-0446"
value="+14079820446">407-982-0446</a><br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">WWW.LEIKHIM.COM</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> App_rpt-users mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit<br>
>> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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and scroll<br>
>> down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email
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>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do
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>> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing,
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>> the list detailing the problem.<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Jeff Ackerman<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kg6uyz@gmail.com">kg6uyz@gmail.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Joe Leikhim<br>
><br>
><br>
> Leikhim and Associates<br>
><br>
> Communications Consultants<br>
><br>
> Oviedo, Florida<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:JLeikhim@Leikhim.com">JLeikhim@Leikhim.com</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:407-982-0446"
value="+14079820446">407-982-0446</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">WWW.LEIKHIM.COM</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Jeff Ackerman<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kg6uyz@gmail.com">kg6uyz@gmail.com</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:30:16 -0400<br>
From: Bryan Fields <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bryan@bryanfields.net">bryan@bryanfields.net</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Non-RTCM voter, where?<br>
Message-ID: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:749F182A-496E-4894-83A8-5A782C32862B@bryanfields.net">749F182A-496E-4894-83A8-5A782C32862B@bryanfields.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I don't believe it does.<br>
<br>
Does anyone have a link to the xipar source repository? I'd
like to take a look how they are doing it. It might be
possible to do it via 1588 or some other network time
protocol.<br>
<br>
On March 30, 2016 12:01:38 PM EDT, Joe Leikhim <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com">rhyolite@leikhim.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
>Without GPS, how does XIPAR deal with jitter and network
latency?<br>
><br>
>On 3/30/2016 11:25 AM, Jeff Ackerman wrote:<br>
>> If you looking for the alternative IP voting of the
varuious app_rpt<br>
>> flavors you can try XIPAR: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter</a><br>
>><br>
>> It wont be as seamless of voting as a RTCM, but its
much simpler,<br>
>> doesnt require anything more then PC's, the IP
backhaul and usb radio<br>
><br>
>> interfaces with radios capable of giving
discriminator audio.<br>
>><br>
>> Conventional hardware voting comparators could work
but require the<br>
>> backhaul, which in most commercial applications is 4
wire e&m voice<br>
>> circuits using either tone signaling or e&m
signaling. (This method<br>
>of<br>
>> voting is done outside of allstar/app_rpt.)<br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Joe Leikhim <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com">rhyolite@leikhim.com</a></a><br>
>> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com">rhyolite@leikhim.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Here are some products to start with;<br>
>><br>
>> There is the Raven M4x<br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ravencomm.com/documents/products_doc3_23.pdf"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ravencomm.com/documents/products_doc3_23.pdf</a><br>
>><br>
>> Raytheon JPS SNV-12 (Though the future of this
product is up in<br>
>> the air, it was the defacto standard. Uses 600
ohm VF circuits,<br>
>IP<br>
>> connectivity needs to be overlaid)<br>
>><br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/userfiles/file/appnotes/vSnv12App.pdf"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/userfiles/file/appnotes/vSnv12App.pdf</a><br>
>><br>
>> Motorola Spectra Tac (Obsolete Now Motorola has
pretty much<br>
>> abandoned analog FM technology. Uses 600 ohm VF
circuits,)<br>
>><br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra-tac/spectratac-index.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra-tac/spectratac-index.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> The above voters all use some method of
signal/noise voting. The<br>
>> JPS SNV-12 and the Raven M4X use DSP to make
decision, while the<br>
>> Spectra Tac was pretty much an analog noise
measurement vs a<br>
>> status tone/audio AGC level. The SpectraTac does
not support<br>
>> non-Motorola receivers unless you know the
"secret sauce" which I<br>
>> am privy to.<br>
>><br>
>> This site has some practical examples of projects
that are<br>
>> simulcast, but by design incorporate the SNV-12
voters.<br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.simulcastsolutions.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.simulcastsolutions.com</a> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.simulcastsolutions.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.simulcastsolutions.com">http://www.simulcastsolutions.com</a></a>><br>
>><br>
>> Are you looking for some more in depth RF design
aspects of<br>
>> receiver voting? I can help perhaps.<br>
>><br>
>> Joe<br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.leikhim.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.leikhim.com</a> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.leikhim.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.leikhim.com">http://www.leikhim.com</a></a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 3/8/2016 5:20 AM, Steve Wright wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On 05/03/16 06:00, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mike@midnighteng.com">mike@midnighteng.com</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mike@midnighteng.com">mike@midnighteng.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> FYI There are RTCM /voter systems for
app_rpt if you want<br>
>> to do it right.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Is there an example voting-RX project
somewhere I can read<br>
>about?<br>
>><br>
>> Non-RTCM please. I know about the RTCM and
I'm looking at<br>
>> alternatives.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Many thanks,<br>
>> Steve<br>
>><br>
>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>> App_rpt-users mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a><br>
>><br>
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a>
and<br>
>> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter
your email<br>
>> address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit
options button"<br>
>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe,
you can do it via<br>
>> email confirmation. If you have trouble
unsubscribing, please<br>
>> send a message to the list detailing the
problem.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Joe Leikhim<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Leikhim and Associates<br>
>><br>
>> Communications Consultants<br>
>><br>
>> Oviedo, Florida<br>
>><br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:JLeikhim@Leikhim.com">JLeikhim@Leikhim.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:407-982-0446"
value="+14079820446">407-982-0446</a> <tel:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:407-982-0446"
value="+14079820446">407-982-0446</a>><br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">WWW.LEIKHIM.COM</a> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM">http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM</a></a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> App_rpt-users mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a><br>
>><br>
>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a>
and<br>
>> scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your
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>> and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options
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>> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you
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>> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing,
please send a<br>
>> message to the list detailing the problem.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Jeff Ackerman<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kg6uyz@gmail.com">kg6uyz@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kg6uyz@gmail.com">kg6uyz@gmail.com</a>><br>
><br>
>--<br>
>Joe Leikhim<br>
><br>
><br>
>Leikhim and Associates<br>
><br>
>Communications Consultants<br>
><br>
>Oviedo, Florida<br>
><br>
><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:JLeikhim@Leikhim.com">JLeikhim@Leikhim.com</a><br>
><br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:407-982-0446"
value="+14079820446">407-982-0446</a><br>
><br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">WWW.LEIKHIM.COM</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>App_rpt-users mailing list<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a><br>
><br>
>To unsubscribe from this list please visit<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a>
and scroll<br>
>down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address
and press the<br>
>"Unsubscribe or edit options button"<br>
>You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it
via email<br>
>confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please
send a message<br>
>to the list detailing the problem.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Bryan Fields<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:727-409-1194"
value="+17274091194">727-409-1194</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://bryanfields.net"
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a>
To unsubscribe from this list please visit <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:JLeikhim@Leikhim.com">JLeikhim@Leikhim.com</a>
407-982-0446
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM">WWW.LEIKHIM.COM</a></pre>
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