<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>There was mention on this board that drift of the 9.6 MHz clock
causes the CTCSS phase to shift. If this is the case, you will
have audible noise and possibly receiver CTCSS drop outs in
overlap areas. You will have distortion of audio frequencies as
well.<br>
</p>
<p>Whatever solution to the 9.6 MHz clock must be phase coherent
between RTCM nodes .<br>
</p>
<p>I have no experience with RTCM, but am quite familiar with
commercial simulcast in the LMR world. I am lurking here because I
see the RTCM as a very affordable contender to the commercial
products that exist today. <br>
</p>
Joe K4SAT<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/6/2016 12:23 PM, Jeff Carrier
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAA_aZLi0cTnC8rpcup3RQGO61JQORpe6Si6TH=5+cCGyHpsCow@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">The RTCM and simulcast DOES work. As mentioned
before, you have to be using a transmitter that can accept a 10
mHz (or whatever) reference signal. You also need 1 PPS for
your receivers and transmitter. You also need to sync the RTCM
to your GPSDO (which I have not done). If you have not done all
this you WILL hear some "funk" in the overlap areas.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That "funk" can go from usable to un-usable depending on
how strong the transmitters are in the overlap region. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pardon the "non-technical" terms. It does work but the law
of physics do apply here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>de K0JSC</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 9:54 AM, <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:app_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.org"
target="_blank">app_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send
App_rpt-users mailing list submissions to<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:app_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.org">app_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:app_rpt-users-owner@ohnosec.org">app_rpt-users-owner@ohnosec.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of App_rpt-users digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: audio for direct VCO FM (Joe Leikhim) (Steve
Wright)<br>
2. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Steve Wright)<br>
3. Re: audio for direct VCO FM: Si5351B (David McGough)<br>
4. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Joe Moskalski)<br>
5. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (David McGough)<br>
6. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Joe Moskalski)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:40:50 +1200<br>
From: Steve Wright <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@meshnetworks.co.nz">info@meshnetworks.co.nz</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio for direct VCO FM (Joe
Leikhim)<br>
Message-ID: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:57552902.9070008@meshnetworks.co.nz">57552902.9070008@meshnetworks.co.nz</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252;
format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 04/06/16 04:00, Joe Leikhim <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com">rhyolite@leikhim.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> Assuming the VCO is part of a PLL, the PLL will tend to
"correct" the<br>
> modulation, [....]<br>
<br>
Was planning to use the Si5351B - has VCO input.<br>
<br>
S<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 20:22:36 +1200<br>
From: Steve Wright <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@meshnetworks.co.nz">info@meshnetworks.co.nz</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question<br>
Message-ID: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:575532CC.2020304@meshnetworks.co.nz">575532CC.2020304@meshnetworks.co.nz</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252;
format=flowed<br>
<br>
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Joe Moskalski <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kc2irv@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kc2irv@gmail.com">kc2irv@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> I will be setting up a 2 site UHF simulcast system in
the coming months<br>
<br>
Huh? I was told (on this list) that simulcast TX "doesn't
work".<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
S<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:46:38 -0400 (EDT)<br>
From: David McGough <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net">kb4fxc@inttek.net</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio for direct VCO FM:
Si5351B<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Pine.LNX.4.44.1606060946450.4196-100000@goliath.inttek.net">Pine.LNX.4.44.1606060946450.4196-100000@goliath.inttek.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Steve,<br>
<br>
We're getting way off topic for the mailing list, but, I
thought I'd post<br>
this reply here if there are any other interested hams out
there, perhaps<br>
who are also experimenting in this area.<br>
<br>
I haven't played with the Si5351B version of this
interesting chip, yet. I<br>
wonder whether the voltage control input of this chip would
be suitable<br>
for AF FM modulation? Assuming that you could modulate the
VCXO at audio<br>
frequencies (the datasheet isn't completely clear to me
about that), an<br>
immediate issue would be that everytime you change the
fractional-N<br>
division ratio, you'll change the modulation index. This
will have to be<br>
compensated for, one way or another.<br>
<br>
I've been playing with several boards with Si5351 chips.
They're pretty<br>
neat. They're also pretty noisy! ...With both spurious and
phase noise.<br>
The phase noise can be improved somewhat with a better
external crystal<br>
oscillator, the spurs seem more challenging. Using the
on-board VCXO with<br>
the 5351B, you can't use a high quality external oscillator,
so phase<br>
noise and overall frequency stability could be an issue,
too.<br>
<br>
Anyhow, for my applications, I'm following the Si5351 with a
secondary<br>
clean-up VCO/PLL, which was already in the radios. I just
needed a<br>
frequency-agile reference oscillator, so to speak. I think
the Si5351 will<br>
work well for this, based on my preliminary tests! (I'd
certainly like to<br>
hear the experiences from anyone who has already been down
this road!)<br>
<br>
I guess you're not finding any local sources of surplus
radios? Do you<br>
have any 6m power amps available?<br>
<br>
<br>
73, David KB4FXC<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Steve Wright wrote:<br>
<br>
> On 04/06/16 04:00, Joe Leikhim <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com">rhyolite@leikhim.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
> > Assuming the VCO is part of a PLL, the PLL will
tend to "correct" the<br>
> > modulation, [....]<br>
><br>
> Was planning to use the Si5351B - has VCO input.<br>
><br>
> S<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:03:11 -0400<br>
From: Joe Moskalski <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kc2irv@gmail.com">kc2irv@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAES28qxB06niu+nL4Y5QfUvgZFf-y8s=<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:uZdH2afzxKnwr0HV%2Bw@mail.gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:uZdH2afzxKnwr0HV+w@mail.gmail.com">uZdH2afzxKnwr0HV+w@mail.gmail.com</a></a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
> It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work
properly with the RTCM<br>
> I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a
device available to<br>
> give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from
the GPSDO or does<br>
> anyone have a schematic available so that I can build
them myself?<br>
><br>
><br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon</a>><br>
Virus-free.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.avast.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a><br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link</a>><br>
<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/a36d4626/attachment-0001.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/a36d4626/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:36:01 -0400 (EDT)<br>
From: David McGough <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net">kb4fxc@inttek.net</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Pine.LNX.4.44.1606061122550.4196-100000@goliath.inttek.net">Pine.LNX.4.44.1606061122550.4196-100000@goliath.inttek.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Joe,<br>
<br>
While on the subject of the Si5351 chips, the application of
converting<br>
one reference clock to a secondary frequency is what they
were designed<br>
for. So, since you've already got a GPS reference, this
-might- be an<br>
inexpensive starting point...For this application, you
obviously won't<br>
need all the bells and whistles presented in this article!
See:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus</a><br>
<br>
Note that I would replace the Si5351 25MHz reference with a
decent TCXO<br>
(available on ebay, etc.)....Note that I haven't used the
Si5351 with an<br>
RTCM, there may be simpler/better ways???<br>
<br>
<br>
73, David KB4FXC<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:<br>
<br>
> > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work
properly with the RTCM<br>
> > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is
there a device available to<br>
> > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out
from the GPSDO or does<br>
> > anyone have a schematic available so that I can
build them myself?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon</a>><br>
> Virus-free.<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.avast.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a><br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link</a>><br>
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:54:11 -0400<br>
From: Joe Moskalski <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kc2irv@gmail.com">kc2irv@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: David McGough <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net">kb4fxc@inttek.net</a>><br>
Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:CAES28qx-G3wytTXKMRVvzMNm%2B498_c-aeNB6JrTWmZOR7A7ZcA@mail.gmail.com">CAES28qx-G3wytTXKMRVvzMNm+498_c-aeNB6JrTWmZOR7A7ZcA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I mentioned this to someone else, QRP Labs has a kit that
creates a OCXO<br>
around the Si5351 chip. here is the link:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.qrp-labs.com/ocxokit.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.qrp-labs.com/ocxokit.html</a><br>
<br>
If you couple this with another kit of theirs you can
program it it any<br>
frequency you want. My only thought is would it be
accurate/stable enough.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.qrp-labs.com/progrock.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.qrp-labs.com/progrock.html</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon</a>><br>
Virus-free.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.avast.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a><br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link</a>><br>
<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><br>
<br>
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 11:36 AM, David McGough <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net">kb4fxc@inttek.net</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
> Hi Joe,<br>
><br>
> While on the subject of the Si5351 chips, the
application of converting<br>
> one reference clock to a secondary frequency is what
they were designed<br>
> for. So, since you've already got a GPS reference, this
-might- be an<br>
> inexpensive starting point...For this application, you
obviously won't<br>
> need all the bells and whistles presented in this
article! See:<br>
><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus</a><br>
><br>
> Note that I would replace the Si5351 25MHz reference
with a decent TCXO<br>
> (available on ebay, etc.)....Note that I haven't used
the Si5351 with an<br>
> RTCM, there may be simpler/better ways???<br>
><br>
><br>
> 73, David KB4FXC<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:<br>
><br>
> > > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to
work properly with the<br>
> RTCM<br>
> > > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is
there a device available<br>
> to<br>
> > > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10
mhz out from the GPSDO or<br>
> does<br>
> > > anyone have a schematic available so that I
can build them myself?<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > <<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon</a><br>
> ><br>
> > Virus-free.<br>
> > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avast.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.avast.com</a><br>
> > <<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link</a><br>
> ><br>
> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> App_rpt-users mailing list<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a><br>
><br>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a>
and scroll down<br>
> to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and
press the<br>
> "Unsubscribe or edit options button"<br>
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do
it via email<br>
> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please
send a message to<br>
> the list detailing the problem.<br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/a06570ac/attachment.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/a06570ac/attachment.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
App_rpt-users mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a><br>
<br>
<br>
End of App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16<br>
*********************************************<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org">App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a>
To unsubscribe from this list please visit <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users">http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users</a> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:JLeikhim@Leikhim.com">JLeikhim@Leikhim.com</a>
407-982-0446
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM">WWW.LEIKHIM.COM</a></pre>
</body>
</html>