Re: [App_rpt-users] Lies, damn lies, and John David McGough
I don't have a dog in this fight, I run neither application, though may in future. That said, it would seem to me that rather than sully the world of AllStar, the continual argument should be taken to the courtroom to be settled out. This means whomever has legal standing at Allstar, or Jim Dixon's heirs, should take JDM, HamVoip or whomever is the legal entity to court over the matter. The big question is who specifically has legal standing to do so. To outsiders like me, this makes the world of Allstarlink look pretty frightening and petty. So who really has legal standing here? -- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Make it a technical battle...which variety can be the most feature laden...... On Wed, Jul 3, 2019, 1:24 PM Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, I run neither application, though may in future. That said, it would seem to me that rather than sully the world of AllStar, the continual argument should be taken to the courtroom to be settled out. This means whomever has legal standing at Allstar, or Jim Dixon's heirs, should take JDM, HamVoip or whomever is the legal entity to court over the matter. The big question is who specifically has legal standing to do so. To outsiders like me, this makes the world of Allstarlink look pretty frightening and petty.
So who really has legal standing here?
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
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This is embarrassing. Do your dirty laundry in private. KM6TOA Node 49245 On Wed, Jul 3, 2019, 1:42 PM Kirk Just Kirk <wb6egr@gmail.com> wrote:
Make it a technical battle...which variety can be the most feature laden......
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019, 1:24 PM Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, I run neither application, though may in future. That said, it would seem to me that rather than sully the world of AllStar, the continual argument should be taken to the courtroom to be settled out. This means whomever has legal standing at Allstar, or Jim Dixon's heirs, should take JDM, HamVoip or whomever is the legal entity to court over the matter. The big question is who specifically has legal standing to do so. To outsiders like me, this makes the world of Allstarlink look pretty frightening and petty.
So who really has legal standing here?
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
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My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing. Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that. It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched. There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source.. It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us. We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software.. But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall. Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things.. Pierre VE2PF P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink. Le mer. 3 juil. 2019 à 16:53, Matthew Simmons <km6toa@gmail.com> a écrit :
This is embarrassing. Do your dirty laundry in private.
KM6TOA Node 49245
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019, 1:42 PM Kirk Just Kirk <wb6egr@gmail.com> wrote:
Make it a technical battle...which variety can be the most feature laden......
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019, 1:24 PM Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, I run neither application, though may in future. That said, it would seem to me that rather than sully the world of AllStar, the continual argument should be taken to the courtroom to be settled out. This means whomever has legal standing at Allstar, or Jim Dixon's heirs, should take JDM, HamVoip or whomever is the legal entity to court over the matter. The big question is who specifically has legal standing to do so. To outsiders like me, this makes the world of Allstarlink look pretty frightening and petty.
So who really has legal standing here?
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
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You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means even more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more. A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination. ....LMAO.... 73, David KB4FXC On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Pierre Martel wrote:
My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing.
Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that.
It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched.
There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source..
It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us.
We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software..
But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall.
Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things..
Pierre VE2PF
P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink.
You can have good laugh, but can you prove me wrong? ;-) Le mer. 3 juil. 2019 à 23:07, David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> a écrit :
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means even more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Pierre Martel wrote:
My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing.
Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that.
It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched.
There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source..
It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us.
We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software..
But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall.
Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things..
Pierre VE2PF
P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink.
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Yeah, fun and games, but you won't release the source, correct? On Wed, Jul 3, 2019, 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means even more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Pierre Martel wrote:
My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing.
Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that.
It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched.
There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source..
It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us.
We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software..
But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall.
Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things..
Pierre VE2PF
P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink.
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To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
That said, it would seem to me that rather than sully the world of AllStar, the continual argument should be taken to the courtroom to be settled out. This means whomever has legal standing at Allstar, or Jim Dixon's heirs, should take JDM, HamVoip or whomever is the legal entity to court over the matter.
It not only actionable by Jim Dixon's estate or successor(s). It seems to me anyone who has contributed to the project under the same license would have standing. --- Jeff WN3A --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye. The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers. Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much. Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato. Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me... Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks. Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing. On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means even more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Pierre Martel wrote:
My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing.
Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that.
It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched.
There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source..
It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us.
We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software..
But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall.
Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things..
Pierre VE2PF
P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink.
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100% agree with everything you said. Bob On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Pierre Martel wrote:
My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing.
Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that.
It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched.
There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source..
It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us.
We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software..
But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall.
Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things..
Pierre VE2PF
P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink.
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John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too. I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing. Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us. On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
100% agree with everything you said.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Pierre Martel wrote:
My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing.
Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that.
It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched.
There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source..
It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us.
We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software..
But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall.
Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things..
Pierre VE2PF
P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink.
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App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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The best email I have read since the start of all of this. Harold VIA Outlook<https://aka.ms/qtex0l> for iOS ________________________________ From: App_rpt-users <app_rpt-users-bounces@lists.allstarlink.org> on behalf of Joshua Nulton <kg5ebi@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 5, 2019 1:29 PM To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Lies, damn lies, and John David McGough John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too. I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing. Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us. On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net<mailto:bob@ruddy.net>> wrote: 100% agree with everything you said. Bob On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com<mailto:kb9mwr@gmail.com>> wrote: I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye. The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers. Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much. Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato. Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me... Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks. Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing. On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net<mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net>> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means even more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Pierre Martel wrote:
My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing.
Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that.
It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched.
There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source..
It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us.
We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software..
But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall.
Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things..
Pierre VE2PF
P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink.
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org<mailto:App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org<mailto:App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org<mailto:App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
Joshua, I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2" comments. The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016. See the fine print at the bottom of this document: https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Fl... AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate. While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth. If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is: 17STPB08347 Go to this website and search for the case number: http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence. So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others. Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames (hearsay) fly. 73, David KB4FXC On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:
John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too.
I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.
Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
100% agree with everything you said.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
David, I haven’t seen anything from anyone saying you need to publish your code under AllStarLink. You wouldn’t publish your code while Jim Dixon was still alive, so for me this ownership argument doesn’t hold any water. Publish your code wherever you please. It’s yours, nobody should try to claim ownership of it and I for one would defend you if they did. You have made some great contributions, but you have also driven wedges into this community. I don’t care for how Mr. Fields has conducted himself at all. Just as I didn’t appreciate the constant bickering from Mr. Crompton about flaws in the usbradio driver that he could never seem to demonstrate or document. It was just childish nonsense. I was thrilled when Jim finally said “if you can do it better, go do it”. That’s how open source works. Many others have contributed to AllStar’s maturity. Are you going to tell us that Supemon wasn’t based on Allmon or Allmon2? The code, Asterisk, apt_rpt, etc. etc. were all developed and published under GPL. Whomever is part of AllStarLink won’t own your code, nor have I seen anyone try to lay claim to anything you or Doug have written. The request has always simply been for you to comply with the GPL and publish your work. Stop this BS now. Kevin Walsh W8KHW
On Jul 5, 2019, at 6:11 PM, David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
Joshua,
I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2" comments.
The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016. See the fine print at the bottom of this document:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Fl...
AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate. While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.
If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is: 17STPB08347
Go to this website and search for the case number:
http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.
Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames (hearsay) fly.
73, David KB4FXC
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:
John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too.
I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.
Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
100% agree with everything you said.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means even more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
Take legal action or shut up ! This topic mailing is not going to change anyone's mind about the issue including mine. But this topic is nearly 40% of the message traffic in the last year. Sorry, I AM DONE WITH IT Live in the misery you create ! ...unsubscribing ...mike/kb8jnm
Second that. This mailing list is for people to ask and answer questions about arterial and app repeat. Take your battle somewhere else. It's selfish and ride to inflict your hysteria and dysfunction upon everyone else. KM6TOA Node 49245 On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 4:24 PM Mike <mm@midnighteng.com> wrote:
Take legal action or shut up !
This topic mailing is not going to change anyone's mind about the issue including mine.
But this topic is nearly 40% of the message traffic in the last year.
Sorry,
I AM DONE WITH IT
Live in the misery you create ! ...unsubscribing
...mike/kb8jnm
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This will be my last post on this. Legal action likely isn't viable. Unless someone has a lot of money to piss away on legal folks. It next to never is in legal cases where money isn't being exchanged for a product or service. So they only people who win are the lawyers. The more logical thing is for either group "try to beat its own game"... And that is precisely what I see going on here. The best advise I can give ASL is, Work on the documentation as that is what I see as the hamvoip advantage. The wiki was a good move. Educate users. Things like iaxrpt, and allmon2 wouldn't exist in a closed source environment. Give and document credit where it is due to reinforce this. While it may be that the Hamvoip code base predates a GPL license, the problem is there is no way to substantiate without showing the source code. It could very well be a one way door, where all the ASL stuff, and addons that do share their code openly are borrowed improperly into a closed hamvoip source version. This is the problem the end users don't get. Basically building a "better" thing, but built off the backs of others. It's like buying a Chinese made electronics item and saying you are happy with the price, but then upset that more and more electronics jobs are going overseas. You can't have it two ways. On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 6:24 PM Mike <mm@midnighteng.com> wrote:
Take legal action or shut up !
This topic mailing is not going to change anyone's mind about the issue including mine.
But this topic is nearly 40% of the message traffic in the last year.
Sorry,
I AM DONE WITH IT
Live in the misery you create ! ...unsubscribing
...mike/kb8jnm
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On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, David McGough wrote:
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
ASL's existence or not is irrelevant. Without Asterisk, no AllStarLink version could exist. Everybody including Jim Dixon relied on the GPL to be able to create derivatives of Asterisk. That means you are bound by the GPL. ================================================================ Dr. Willem A. Schreuder, President, Principia Mathematica Address: 445 Union Blvd, Suite 230, Lakewood, CO 80228, USA Tel: (303) 716-3573 Fax: (303) 716-3575 WWW: www.prinmath.com Email: Willem.Schreuder@prinmath.com
Did I read correctly that David believes app_rpt is public domain and not bound by the terms of the GPL? Here’s what I see at the top of my copy of app_rpt.c, from the 1.4pre23 version of app_rpt that exists in an installation of ASL. I’ll happily have a look at an earlier version. But if there’s another version of app_rpt.c with no explicit licensing terms, someone please point me at it and I’ll happily admit to my wrongness. But…admittedly I only go back to 2009, although I don’t think I’ve ever seen a version that did not contain this: /* * Asterisk -- An open source telephony toolkit. * * Copyright (C) 2002-2014, Jim Dixon, WB6NIL * * Jim Dixon, WB6NIL <jim@lambdatel.com> * Serious contributions by Steve RoDgers, WA6ZFT <hwstar@rodgers.sdcoxmail.com> * * See http://www.asterisk.org for more information about * the Asterisk project. Please do not directly contact * any of the maintainers of this project for assistance; * the project provides a web site, mailing lists and IRC * channels for your use. * * This program is free software, distributed under the terms of * the GNU General Public License Version 2. See the LICENSE file * at the top of the source tree. */ Actually…I believe I have another version of app_rpt.c that mentions even more contributors, like W9SH for example. It also listed the GPL and referred to the license file in the Asterisk source tree. Actually, app_rpt.c was distributed with the GPL’ed Asterisk bistro for ages, even though it stopped working with anything after V1.4presomething. Xelatec had a version in their Xipar bistro that was based on 1.4.44pre-something, as I recall, also. I also think Jim’s views on the GPL were pretty clear from many of his posts on this list before his death. While he certainly encouraged the Arch linux effort that became hamvoip…I remember when this was going on, and Hamvoip ran only on the BBB…and he said “If you can do better, have at it”, I’m confident in my opinion that the “Contribute your changes back to the community” was strongly implied, if not directly stated. While I agree that my non-lawyerly opinion is that HamVOIP is in violation of the GPL, and while I also agree that this is not a division that’s any good for the ham community generally nor the ASL using community in particular, I don’t think Brian’s approach to addressing the problem is particularly helpful either. Some who are digging in their heels may be more willing to see the very valid points he makes if he did not give the arguments he poses the tone of a personal, bitter vendetta. Now…can we please try to *heal* this rift, rather than tearing it even wider? I’ve seen the arguments for why David has not released the source. Mostly, he has said that his changes are incompatible with non-HamVOIP distributions. OK, that’s fair, and it’s also fair to say that mixing code without properly taking into account any changes could be a pretty bad idea. But how do we know? More to the point, how do we know that someone else might see the changes, and further see a way to implement them in such a way as to make them available to everyone, in all branches of the code, or at least see a way to make something similar work? The idea that the rest of us simply can’t understand the changes and will just break more stuff if we try is a little insulting, and it doesn’t leave much room for learning. A good thing about GPL software is…lots of eyeballs can potentially spot flaws, make improvements, or see a better way. The disadvantage is that if you break it, you get to keep all the pieces. But that’s a small price to pay, IMO, for the benefits. Vy 73, Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Email: buddy@brannan.name Mobile: (814) 431-0962
On Jul 5, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Willem Schreuder <willem@prinmath.com> wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, David McGough wrote:
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
ASL's existence or not is irrelevant.
Without Asterisk, no AllStarLink version could exist. Everybody including Jim Dixon relied on the GPL to be able to create derivatives of Asterisk.
That means you are bound by the GPL.
================================================================ Dr. Willem A. Schreuder, President, Principia Mathematica Address: 445 Union Blvd, Suite 230, Lakewood, CO 80228, USA Tel: (303) 716-3573 Fax: (303) 716-3575 WWW: www.prinmath.com Email: Willem.Schreuder@prinmath.com _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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the header of app_rpt.c on the 2011 limey distribution of allstarlink is that: /* #define NEW_ASTERISK */ /* #define OLD_ASTERISK */ /* * Asterisk -- An open source telephony toolkit. * * Copyright (C) 2002-2009, Jim Dixon, WB6NIL * * Jim Dixon, WB6NIL <jim@lambdatel.com> * Serious contributions by Steve RoDgers, WA6ZFT < hwstar@rodgers.sdcoxmail.com> * * See http://www.asterisk.org for more information about * the Asterisk project. Please do not directly contact * any of the maintainers of this project for assistance; * the project provides a web site, mailing lists and IRC * channels for your use. * * This program is free software, distributed under the terms of * the GNU General Public License Version 2. See the LICENSE file * at the top of the source tree. */ It is easy to find and I really dont think anyone took the time to modify all the app_rpt.c with good time stamp on every version online of limey or acid. the licence is pretty clear and the Jim did released the software as gpl. Le ven. 5 juil. 2019 à 22:56, Buddy Brannan <buddy@brannan.name> a écrit :
Did I read correctly that David believes app_rpt is public domain and not bound by the terms of the GPL?
Here’s what I see at the top of my copy of app_rpt.c, from the 1.4pre23 version of app_rpt that exists in an installation of ASL. I’ll happily have a look at an earlier version. But if there’s another version of app_rpt.c with no explicit licensing terms, someone please point me at it and I’ll happily admit to my wrongness. But…admittedly I only go back to 2009, although I don’t think I’ve ever seen a version that did not contain this:
/* * Asterisk -- An open source telephony toolkit. * * Copyright (C) 2002-2014, Jim Dixon, WB6NIL * * Jim Dixon, WB6NIL <jim@lambdatel.com> * Serious contributions by Steve RoDgers, WA6ZFT < hwstar@rodgers.sdcoxmail.com> * * See http://www.asterisk.org for more information about * the Asterisk project. Please do not directly contact * any of the maintainers of this project for assistance; * the project provides a web site, mailing lists and IRC * channels for your use. * * This program is free software, distributed under the terms of * the GNU General Public License Version 2. See the LICENSE file * at the top of the source tree. */
Actually…I believe I have another version of app_rpt.c that mentions even more contributors, like W9SH for example. It also listed the GPL and referred to the license file in the Asterisk source tree. Actually, app_rpt.c was distributed with the GPL’ed Asterisk bistro for ages, even though it stopped working with anything after V1.4presomething. Xelatec had a version in their Xipar bistro that was based on 1.4.44pre-something, as I recall, also.
I also think Jim’s views on the GPL were pretty clear from many of his posts on this list before his death. While he certainly encouraged the Arch linux effort that became hamvoip…I remember when this was going on, and Hamvoip ran only on the BBB…and he said “If you can do better, have at it”, I’m confident in my opinion that the “Contribute your changes back to the community” was strongly implied, if not directly stated.
While I agree that my non-lawyerly opinion is that HamVOIP is in violation of the GPL, and while I also agree that this is not a division that’s any good for the ham community generally nor the ASL using community in particular, I don’t think Brian’s approach to addressing the problem is particularly helpful either. Some who are digging in their heels may be more willing to see the very valid points he makes if he did not give the arguments he poses the tone of a personal, bitter vendetta.
Now…can we please try to *heal* this rift, rather than tearing it even wider?
I’ve seen the arguments for why David has not released the source. Mostly, he has said that his changes are incompatible with non-HamVOIP distributions. OK, that’s fair, and it’s also fair to say that mixing code without properly taking into account any changes could be a pretty bad idea. But how do we know? More to the point, how do we know that someone else might see the changes, and further see a way to implement them in such a way as to make them available to everyone, in all branches of the code, or at least see a way to make something similar work? The idea that the rest of us simply can’t understand the changes and will just break more stuff if we try is a little insulting, and it doesn’t leave much room for learning. A good thing about GPL software is…lots of eyeballs can potentially spot flaws, make improvements, or see a better way. The disadvantage is that if you break it, you get to keep all the pieces. But that’s a small price to pay, IMO, for the benefits.
Vy 73,
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Email: buddy@brannan.name Mobile: (814) 431-0962
On Jul 5, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Willem Schreuder <willem@prinmath.com> wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, David McGough wrote:
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
ASL's existence or not is irrelevant.
Without Asterisk, no AllStarLink version could exist. Everybody including Jim Dixon relied on the GPL to be able to create derivatives of Asterisk.
That means you are bound by the GPL.
================================================================ Dr. Willem A. Schreuder, President, Principia Mathematica Address: 445 Union Blvd, Suite 230, Lakewood, CO 80228, USA Tel: (303) 716-3573 Fax: (303) 716-3575 WWW: www.prinmath.com Email: Willem.Schreuder@prinmath.com _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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Well, it seems to be true that registration complaints come primarily from hamvoip as we seldom see those problems on this list. I think that's because the Pi crowd tends to turn off their nodes way more often than others. It does take a while for the IP address of recently powered up nodes propagate. Hamvoip fixed that but won't share the code so it might look like ASL registration is broken to some. VE2PF's theory of "the other distro playing with registration" isn't so far fetched. In fact, there's a whole lot of truth to that. On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 8:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means even more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Pierre Martel wrote:
My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing.
Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that.
It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched.
There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source..
It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us.
We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software..
But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall.
Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things..
Pierre VE2PF
P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink.
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-- Tim WD6AWP
The AllStar branding did come later. The AllStar brand started when the infrastructure (portal, registration, IP distribution and ham network) came to be as embodied in allstarlink.org. Back then AllStar was the ham network and app_rpt was the Asterisk application. I still like that delineation because anyone can use app_rpt (such as GMRS) but only hams can use the AllStar network. Water under the bridge, it's all AllStar now. On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 10:37 AM Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Pierre Martel wrote:
My message to the people that want this to be done in private, I say. It is already in private, Private communication between the people that have business in a matter is exactly what we are doing. We are ALL parts of that thing.
Anyone that think they are not being affected by this is so wrong. The other distro could be playing with how the registration is being done and could be the responsible for the registration failling.. But since they wont release the source of the code we cant say, and first thing we know, the user thinks it is the coder here that are responsible.. Open source are exactly for that.
It can be a simple tactic to force the user base that use that distro into moving to a new type of registration and splitting the community in half.. this would not even be far fetched.
There is a saying in french that goes like this ( open translation sorry if it is not ok) There is no better way to justify the killing your dog then telling it has rabies. So making registration unreliable in there version is about the best way to push a split by offering a "better" solution. Again, there is no way to check this as they dont publish the source..
It is not the first time in open source software that this happen, SDR# used to be open source, but lots of people started publishing binaries with dirty hacks and other gizmo that was making the software unstable. The main programer got tired of this and closed back the source ( he always kept the IP to himself , never released the source under GPL). And now, even if he still works on his project and we still have the software, the day he decide to stop producing it, we all loose... And if the source would be available, maybe some new coder could build on what he done and we would all gain from this.. But nope, some ass holes broke this for ALL of us.
We are still lucky that many good programer are still maintening and upgrading that software..
But letting things go as they are right now will only lead to a pit fall.
Like some meme photo we all see on social media, ITs because of that we cant have nice things..
Pierre VE2PF
P.s. Just in case it is not clear.. The other distro leader are the worst thing that could happen to allstarlink.
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-- Tim WD6AWP
Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who's name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context. The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any "proof" to the contrary is plainly wrong. On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
Joshua,
I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2" comments.
The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016. See the fine print at the bottom of this document:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Fl...
AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate. While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.
If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is: 17STPB08347
Go to this website and search for the case number:
http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.
Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames (hearsay) fly.
73, David KB4FXC
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:
John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too.
I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.
Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
100% agree with everything you said.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the
HamVoIP
release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means even more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Tim WD6AWP
I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: https://community.allstarlink.org/t/history-of-zapata-telephony-asterisk-all... On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who's name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.
The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any "proof" to the contrary is plainly wrong.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
Joshua,
I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2" comments.
The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016. See the fine print at the bottom of this document:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Fl...
AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate. While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.
If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is: 17STPB08347
Go to this website and search for the case number:
http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.
Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames (hearsay) fly.
73, David KB4FXC
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:
John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too.
I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.
Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
100% agree with everything you said.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the
HamVoIP
release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means even more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Tim WD6AWP
-- Tim WD6AWP
Seems pretty clear to me. It seemed pretty clear to me when V1.5RC was released a couple years ago and I, among others, asked about why the source was not forthcoming. The reasons seem to change somewhat every so often. I’d have to look at the original email, but it definitely didn’t mention any belief that app_rpt or anything related was public domain. Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Email: buddy@brannan.name Mobile: (814) 431-0962
On Jul 7, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: https://community.allstarlink.org/t/history-of-zapata-telephony-asterisk-all...
On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote: Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who's name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.
The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any "proof" to the contrary is plainly wrong.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
Joshua,
I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2" comments.
The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016. See the fine print at the bottom of this document:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Fl...
AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate. While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.
If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is: 17STPB08347
Go to this website and search for the case number:
http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.
Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames (hearsay) fly.
73, David KB4FXC
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:
John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too.
I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.
Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
100% agree with everything you said.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Tim WD6AWP
-- Tim WD6AWP _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
They definitely didn’t say anything about public domain and actually acknowledged on their web page that it open source! In other words, they knew it was open source when they chose to download the source code. They knew that any changes they made and redistributed that they have to release back to the community. https://www.hamvoip.org <https://www.hamvoip.org/> “Why Allstar? We are often asked why Allstar with all of the new RF digital repeaters and their VOIP connection schemes out there. The best answer is open source, quality audio, and freedom to do what you want. Dstar, Fusion, DMR, etc are all at least partially if not completely proprietary systems…” To make matters even worse, they now they are monetizing on all the work many people have done to make Allstar what it is today by asking for people to send them money! I know there are some personality conflicts with Doug and some of the tech support people. I personally have tried to be the buffer and was rebuffed. There is no excuse not to release the code. Jim Dixon would be so upset if he was alive today. Shame on them.
On Jul 7, 2019, at 17:00, Buddy Brannan <buddy@brannan.name> wrote:
Seems pretty clear to me. It seemed pretty clear to me when V1.5RC was released a couple years ago and I, among others, asked about why the source was not forthcoming. The reasons seem to change somewhat every so often. I’d have to look at the original email, but it definitely didn’t mention any belief that app_rpt or anything related was public domain.
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Email: buddy@brannan.name Mobile: (814) 431-0962
On Jul 7, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: https://community.allstarlink.org/t/history-of-zapata-telephony-asterisk-all...
On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote: Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who's name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.
The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any "proof" to the contrary is plainly wrong.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
Joshua,
I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2" comments.
The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016. See the fine print at the bottom of this document:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Fl...
AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate. While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.
If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is: 17STPB08347
Go to this website and search for the case number:
http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.
Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames (hearsay) fly.
73, David KB4FXC
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:
John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too.
I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.
Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
100% agree with everything you said.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough, as the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge Raspberry Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Tim WD6AWP
-- Tim WD6AWP _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
Here is a direct recording from Doug Crompton on his interview on QSO today: He states the downside of IRLP on the closed source manner, and the fact is operated by one person, and then later states the benefits of AllStar Sounds familiar Doug?? kg0sky.duckdns.org/doug_crompton.wav Whole interview can be found here: https://www.qsotoday.com/podcasts/wa3dsp On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 9:58 AM todd@lesser.com <todd@nccom.com> wrote:
They definitely didn’t say anything about public domain and actually acknowledged on their web page that it open source! In other words, they knew it was open source when they chose to download the source code. They knew that any changes they made and redistributed that they have to release back to the community.
“Why Allstar?
We are often asked why Allstar with all of the new RF digital repeaters and their VOIP connection schemes out there. The best answer is open source, quality audio, and freedom to do what you want. Dstar, Fusion, DMR, etc are all at least partially if not completely proprietary systems…”
To make matters even worse, they now they are monetizing on all the work many people have done to make Allstar what it is today by asking for people to send them money!
I know there are some personality conflicts with Doug and some of the tech support people. I personally have tried to be the buffer and was rebuffed. There is no excuse not to release the code.
Jim Dixon would be so upset if he was alive today. Shame on them.
On Jul 7, 2019, at 17:00, Buddy Brannan <buddy@brannan.name> wrote:
Seems pretty clear to me. It seemed pretty clear to me when V1.5RC was released a couple years ago and I, among others, asked about why the source was not forthcoming. The reasons seem to change somewhat every so often. I’d have to look at the original email, but it definitely didn’t mention any belief that app_rpt or anything related was public domain.
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Email: buddy@brannan.name <buddy@brannan.name> Mobile: (814) 431-0962
On Jul 7, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: https://community.allstarlink.org/t/history-of-zapata-telephony-asterisk-all...
On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote: Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who's name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.
The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any "proof" to the contrary is plainly wrong.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
Joshua,
I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2" comments.
The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016. See the fine print at the bottom of this document:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Fl...
AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate. While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.
If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is: 17STPB08347
Go to this website and search for the case number:
http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.
Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames (hearsay) fly.
73, David KB4FXC
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:
John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too.
I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.
Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
100% agree with everything you said.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough,
as
the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge
Raspberry
Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
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-- Tim WD6AWP
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Hey that's a good one! Le mar. 9 juill. 2019 12 h 21, Skyler F <electricity440@gmail.com> a écrit :
Here is a direct recording from Doug Crompton on his interview on QSO today: He states the downside of IRLP on the closed source manner, and the fact is operated by one person, and then later states the benefits of AllStar Sounds familiar Doug??
kg0sky.duckdns.org/doug_crompton.wav
Whole interview can be found here: https://www.qsotoday.com/podcasts/wa3dsp
On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 9:58 AM todd@lesser.com <todd@nccom.com> wrote:
They definitely didn’t say anything about public domain and actually acknowledged on their web page that it open source! In other words, they knew it was open source when they chose to download the source code. They knew that any changes they made and redistributed that they have to release back to the community.
“Why Allstar?
We are often asked why Allstar with all of the new RF digital repeaters and their VOIP connection schemes out there. The best answer is open source, quality audio, and freedom to do what you want. Dstar, Fusion, DMR, etc are all at least partially if not completely proprietary systems…”
To make matters even worse, they now they are monetizing on all the work many people have done to make Allstar what it is today by asking for people to send them money!
I know there are some personality conflicts with Doug and some of the tech support people. I personally have tried to be the buffer and was rebuffed. There is no excuse not to release the code.
Jim Dixon would be so upset if he was alive today. Shame on them.
On Jul 7, 2019, at 17:00, Buddy Brannan <buddy@brannan.name> wrote:
Seems pretty clear to me. It seemed pretty clear to me when V1.5RC was released a couple years ago and I, among others, asked about why the source was not forthcoming. The reasons seem to change somewhat every so often. I’d have to look at the original email, but it definitely didn’t mention any belief that app_rpt or anything related was public domain.
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Email: buddy@brannan.name <buddy@brannan.name> Mobile: (814) 431-0962
On Jul 7, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote:
I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: https://community.allstarlink.org/t/history-of-zapata-telephony-asterisk-all...
On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote: Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who's name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.
The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any "proof" to the contrary is plainly wrong.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
Joshua,
I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2" comments.
The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016. See the fine print at the bottom of this document:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Fl...
AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate. While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.
If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is: 17STPB08347
Go to this website and search for the case number:
http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate
As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g. github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.
So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.
Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames (hearsay) fly.
73, David KB4FXC
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:
John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move. You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know this too.
I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.
Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift. Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
100% agree with everything you said.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see the benefit of open source
Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later) from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar became the answer to my prayers.
Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the closed source case, not so much.
Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum. This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens the Sun even more.
A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962 thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough,
as
the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge
Raspberry
Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
....LMAO....
73, David KB4FXC
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- Tim WD6AWP
-- Tim WD6AWP _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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participants (18)
-
Andrew Sylthe -
Buddy Brannan -
David McGough -
Harold Kinchelow -
Jeff DePolo -
Joe Leikhim -
Joshua Nulton -
Kevin Walsh -
Kirk Just Kirk -
Matthew Simmons -
Mike -
Pierre Martel -
Robert Ruddy -
Skyler F -
Steve L -
Tim Sawyer -
todd＠lesser.com -
Willem Schreuder