Hi Bryan. Thanks for the reply. Yes, I adjusted hangtime and all it does is extend the repeater hang time. As for the reverse burst method, it works great with radios that support is like Motorola portables. The problem is that the VX5-R does not support reverse burst. The repeater is a Motorola repeater, so I pulled the TX PL reed out and got excited about the chicken burst option on the APP_RPT.. But it still gives me squelch burst.. Like I said, I just need another 100 MS (200 to be safe) to make this work.. Is this a parameter that cannot be tweaked? If not, I can always build an external piece of hardware to add the additional delay on the PTT. I just thought it might be easier to do this in software. Or I can simply wait for a future APP_RPT release that might have this variable defined to help those with radios that need a little bit more time in the CTCSS timeout sequence. 73 Lu, KA4EPS From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Bryan D. Boyle Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:12 AM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak On 7/13/11 7:02 AM, Lu Vencl wrote: Looking for the parameter and file (if not in rpt.conf) where I can tweak the length of chicken burst. The current amount is not enough for my VX 5R.. I need another 200 MS to be effective. Thanks.. Lu KA4EPS Have you gone through and set your timeouts and such in rpt.conf? Additionally...are you transmitting PL tones? If you are, and you're not depending on the radio hardware (ie you're doing all the audio processing in Asterisk, and doing direct FM injection), you can try using reversing the phase of the pl before carrier drop to quiet the end user receiver before dropping RF carrier. Old technique to quiet the receiver before dropping carrier. Getting all of these to work correctly is a balancing act between what the radio can do, and how that coincides with how Asterisk views the world. Just some thoughts. 73 Bryan WB0YLE Allstar 27294 27295 27673 27710 27774...:) -- Bryan In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.

Yes, exactly.. Some radios just do not respond to the reverse burst option and the current length of the chicken burst. Below are my current settings in case someone needs to see them. rxchannel=Radio/usb27869 duplex=2 erxgain=-3 etxgain=3 ;controlstates=controlstates scheduler=schedule27869 morse=morse27869 macro=macro27869 functions=functions27869 phone_functions=functions27869 link_functions=functions27869 telemetry=telemetry wait_times=wait-times context = radio callerid = "Repeater" <0000000000> idrecording = |iKA4EPS/R accountcode=RADIO hangtime=2000 althangtime=1000 totime=170000 idtime=540000 politeid=3000 idtalkover=|iKA4EPS/R unlinkedct=ct2 remotect=ct3 linkunkeyct=ct8 ;nolocallinkct=0 ;eannmode=1 ;connpgm=yourconnectprogram ;discpgm=yourdisconnectprogram ;lnkactenable=0 ;lnkacttime=1800 ;lnkactmacro=*52 ;lnkacttimerwarn=30seconds ;remote_inact_timeout=1800 ;remote_timeout=3600 nounkeyct=0 ;holdofftelem=0 beaconing=0 From: John Heron [mailto:jh0932@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:41 AM To: Lu Vencl Cc: <bdboyle@bdboyle.com>; <app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak Lu, Note that current commercial kenwoods also have reverse burst except theirs is like 120 degrees but effective... Yeasu and Icom no... Chicken burst best option... Even better is tie pl to incoming signal detect where local or network triggers pl encode and drops when they do... Smart chicken burst! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:25 AM, "Lu Vencl" <vencl@att.net> wrote: Hi Bryan. Thanks for the reply. Yes, I adjusted hangtime and all it does is extend the repeater hang time. As for the reverse burst method, it works great with radios that support is like Motorola portables. The problem is that the VX5-R does not support reverse burst. The repeater is a Motorola repeater, so I pulled the TX PL reed out and got excited about the chicken burst option on the APP_RPT.. But it still gives me squelch burst.. Like I said, I just need another 100 MS (200 to be safe) to make this work.. Is this a parameter that cannot be tweaked? If not, I can always build an external piece of hardware to add the additional delay on the PTT. I just thought it might be easier to do this in software. Or I can simply wait for a future APP_RPT release that might have this variable defined to help those with radios that need a little bit more time in the CTCSS timeout sequence. 73 Lu, KA4EPS From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Bryan D. Boyle Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:12 AM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak On 7/13/11 7:02 AM, Lu Vencl wrote: Looking for the parameter and file (if not in rpt.conf) where I can tweak the length of chicken burst. The current amount is not enough for my VX 5R.. I need another 200 MS to be effective. Thanks.. Lu KA4EPS Have you gone through and set your timeouts and such in rpt.conf? Additionally...are you transmitting PL tones? If you are, and you're not depending on the radio hardware (ie you're doing all the audio processing in Asterisk, and doing direct FM injection), you can try using reversing the phase of the pl before carrier drop to quiet the end user receiver before dropping RF carrier. Old technique to quiet the receiver before dropping carrier. Getting all of these to work correctly is a balancing act between what the radio can do, and how that coincides with how Asterisk views the world. Just some thoughts. 73 Bryan WB0YLE Allstar 27294 27295 27673 27710 27774...:) -- Bryan In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me. _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

The parameter can be tweaked in code but I don't believe you can do it from the configuration files itself (at least I haven't found a way to do it). Another thing that might help the situation is even though your using COS from the USB, you may want to find out what your high water mark from your squelch is when you key up your repeater and set the rxsquelch to just below that. People that use non motorola radios on my repeater have no issues with squelch tail when I set it up that way. I don't know what your using for a repeater but my Quantar's work just fine setting it up that way. I use CTCSS from the Quantar instead of the software CTCSS from the software. Paul From: Ken <ke2n@cs.com<mailto:ke2n@cs.com>> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:50:05 -1000 To: 'Lu Vencl' <vencl@att.net<mailto:vencl@att.net>>, "bdboyle@bdboyle.com<mailto:bdboyle@bdboyle.com>" <bdboyle@bdboyle.com<mailto:bdboyle@bdboyle.com>>, "app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org<mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>" <app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org<mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak What you are talking about is in usbradio.conf txtoctype=notone ; Transmit tone control type: no,phase,notone ; no - CTCSS tone encoding with no hang time ; phase - encode CTCSS and reverse phase ; AKA ("reverse burst") before unkeying TX ; notone - encode CTCSS and stop sending tone before unkeying TX ; AKA ("chicken burst") I use the “notone” option as you can see. I find that my Kenwood radio needs about 700 ms of hang time (from rpt.conf) for the CTCSS squelch to close. If you drop the carrier after that, there is no noise. Before that – and you still hear some squelch tail. Ken KE2N From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org<mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org> [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Lu Vencl Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:25 AM To: bdboyle@bdboyle.com<mailto:bdboyle@bdboyle.com>; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org<mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak Hi Bryan. Thanks for the reply. Yes, I adjusted hangtime and all it does is extend the repeater hang time. As for the reverse burst method, it works great with radios that support is like Motorola portables. The problem is that the VX5-R does not support reverse burst. The repeater is a Motorola repeater, so I pulled the TX PL reed out and got excited about the chicken burst option on the APP_RPT.. But it still gives me squelch burst.. Like I said, I just need another 100 MS (200 to be safe) to make this work.. Is this a parameter that cannot be tweaked? If not, I can always build an external piece of hardware to add the additional delay on the PTT. I just thought it might be easier to do this in software. Or I can simply wait for a future APP_RPT release that might have this variable defined to help those with radios that need a little bit more time in the CTCSS timeout sequence. 73 Lu, KA4EPS From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org<mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org> [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Bryan D. Boyle Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:12 AM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org<mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak On 7/13/11 7:02 AM, Lu Vencl wrote: Looking for the parameter and file (if not in rpt.conf) where I can tweak the length of chicken burst. The current amount is not enough for my VX 5R.. I need another 200 MS to be effective. Thanks.. Lu KA4EPS Have you gone through and set your timeouts and such in rpt.conf? Additionally...are you transmitting PL tones? If you are, and you're not depending on the radio hardware (ie you're doing all the audio processing in Asterisk, and doing direct FM injection), you can try using reversing the phase of the pl before carrier drop to quiet the end user receiver before dropping RF carrier. Old technique to quiet the receiver before dropping carrier. Getting all of these to work correctly is a balancing act between what the radio can do, and how that coincides with how Asterisk views the world. Just some thoughts. 73 Bryan WB0YLE Allstar 27294 27295 27673 27710 27774...:) -- Bryan In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.

So let me lay out a few notes to clarify. In the "notone" mode, the CTCSS encoding is present on all transmissions, including CWID, announcements etc. Then at the end of each transmission, the CTCSS encoding stops at hang timer expiration and then the PTT is released about 300-500 ms later. I will need to measure that to confirm the amount. For most radios the current amount of delay is sufficient, but Yaesu wants a tad bit more delay before the mute occurs, thus you still hear the squelch burst.. Obviously this has no bearing on operation as everything works fine, however for the purpose of improving the process / project, I simply wanted to point it out. Sounds like this is nothing a config file can fix at this time, but in a future release, the option to tweak this parameter or perhaps a second predefined value would be a plus. From: Ken [mailto:ke2n@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:58 PM To: 'Paul J. Agamata'; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak Hmmm - maybe I was not clear If you let Asterisk do the CTCSS detection and generation, select "notone" in your config file and set the hang time (in the other config file) to something reasonable, then users - who have turned on their tone squelch - will hear no squelch tail. Isn't that what we are trying to do? Ken From: Paul J. Agamata [mailto:Sysman@Xceptions.COM] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:19 PM To: Ken; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak The parameter can be tweaked in code but I don't believe you can do it from the configuration files itself (at least I haven't found a way to do it). Another thing that might help the situation is even though your using COS from the USB, you may want to find out what your high water mark from your squelch is when you key up your repeater and set the rxsquelch to just below that. People that use non motorola radios on my repeater have no issues with squelch tail when I set it up that way. I don't know what your using for a repeater but my Quantar's work just fine setting it up that way. I use CTCSS from the Quantar instead of the software CTCSS from the software. Paul From: Ken <ke2n@cs.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:50:05 -1000 To: 'Lu Vencl' <vencl@att.net>, "bdboyle@bdboyle.com" <bdboyle@bdboyle.com>, "app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org" <app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak What you are talking about is in usbradio.conf txtoctype=notone ; Transmit tone control type: no,phase,notone ; no - CTCSS tone encoding with no hang time ; phase - encode CTCSS and reverse phase ; AKA ("reverse burst") before unkeying TX ; notone - encode CTCSS and stop sending tone before unkeying TX ; AKA ("chicken burst") I use the "notone" option as you can see. I find that my Kenwood radio needs about 700 ms of hang time (from rpt.conf) for the CTCSS squelch to close. If you drop the carrier after that, there is no noise. Before that - and you still hear some squelch tail. Ken KE2N From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Lu Vencl Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:25 AM To: bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak Hi Bryan. Thanks for the reply. Yes, I adjusted hangtime and all it does is extend the repeater hang time. As for the reverse burst method, it works great with radios that support is like Motorola portables. The problem is that the VX5-R does not support reverse burst. The repeater is a Motorola repeater, so I pulled the TX PL reed out and got excited about the chicken burst option on the APP_RPT.. But it still gives me squelch burst.. Like I said, I just need another 100 MS (200 to be safe) to make this work.. Is this a parameter that cannot be tweaked? If not, I can always build an external piece of hardware to add the additional delay on the PTT. I just thought it might be easier to do this in software. Or I can simply wait for a future APP_RPT release that might have this variable defined to help those with radios that need a little bit more time in the CTCSS timeout sequence. 73 Lu, KA4EPS From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Bryan D. Boyle Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:12 AM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak On 7/13/11 7:02 AM, Lu Vencl wrote: Looking for the parameter and file (if not in rpt.conf) where I can tweak the length of chicken burst. The current amount is not enough for my VX 5R.. I need another 200 MS to be effective. Thanks.. Lu KA4EPS Have you gone through and set your timeouts and such in rpt.conf? Additionally...are you transmitting PL tones? If you are, and you're not depending on the radio hardware (ie you're doing all the audio processing in Asterisk, and doing direct FM injection), you can try using reversing the phase of the pl before carrier drop to quiet the end user receiver before dropping RF carrier. Old technique to quiet the receiver before dropping carrier. Getting all of these to work correctly is a balancing act between what the radio can do, and how that coincides with how Asterisk views the world. Just some thoughts. 73 Bryan WB0YLE Allstar 27294 27295 27673 27710 27774...:) -- Bryan In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.

Well that is interesting.. I just tested a new node I am installing on Saturday with a pair of headphones, and all transmissions including other node transmissions contain PL until 500 ms prior the PTT is released. So unless you have a parameter that is different than mine, I can't explain why my node is behaving the way I have described all along. From: Ken [mailto:ke2n@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 9:22 PM To: 'Lu Vencl'; 'Paul J. Agamata'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak Not exactly - The CTCSS stops as soon as Asterisk wants to stop it. That would be when the input CTCSS is detected as stopping or when some recording, or ID, has finished. Of course it takes some finite amount of time for Asterisk DSP to decide that the input CTCSS has really stopped. Then the hang timer starts timing. The PTT drops when the hang timer times out. The CTCSS will have been stopped essentially for the duration of the hang timer. GL Ken From: Lu Vencl [mailto:vencl@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 9:15 PM To: 'Ken'; 'Paul J. Agamata'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak So let me lay out a few notes to clarify. In the "notone" mode, the CTCSS encoding is present on all transmissions, including CWID, announcements etc. Then at the end of each transmission, the CTCSS encoding stops at hang timer expiration and then the PTT is released about 300-500 ms later. I will need to measure that to confirm the amount. For most radios the current amount of delay is sufficient, but Yaesu wants a tad bit more delay before the mute occurs, thus you still hear the squelch burst.. Obviously this has no bearing on operation as everything works fine, however for the purpose of improving the process / project, I simply wanted to point it out. Sounds like this is nothing a config file can fix at this time, but in a future release, the option to tweak this parameter or perhaps a second predefined value would be a plus. From: Ken [mailto:ke2n@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:58 PM To: 'Paul J. Agamata'; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak Hmmm - maybe I was not clear If you let Asterisk do the CTCSS detection and generation, select "notone" in your config file and set the hang time (in the other config file) to something reasonable, then users - who have turned on their tone squelch - will hear no squelch tail. Isn't that what we are trying to do? Ken From: Paul J. Agamata [mailto:Sysman@Xceptions.COM] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:19 PM To: Ken; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak The parameter can be tweaked in code but I don't believe you can do it from the configuration files itself (at least I haven't found a way to do it). Another thing that might help the situation is even though your using COS from the USB, you may want to find out what your high water mark from your squelch is when you key up your repeater and set the rxsquelch to just below that. People that use non motorola radios on my repeater have no issues with squelch tail when I set it up that way. I don't know what your using for a repeater but my Quantar's work just fine setting it up that way. I use CTCSS from the Quantar instead of the software CTCSS from the software. Paul From: Ken <ke2n@cs.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:50:05 -1000 To: 'Lu Vencl' <vencl@att.net>, "bdboyle@bdboyle.com" <bdboyle@bdboyle.com>, "app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org" <app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak What you are talking about is in usbradio.conf txtoctype=notone ; Transmit tone control type: no,phase,notone ; no - CTCSS tone encoding with no hang time ; phase - encode CTCSS and reverse phase ; AKA ("reverse burst") before unkeying TX ; notone - encode CTCSS and stop sending tone before unkeying TX ; AKA ("chicken burst") I use the "notone" option as you can see. I find that my Kenwood radio needs about 700 ms of hang time (from rpt.conf) for the CTCSS squelch to close. If you drop the carrier after that, there is no noise. Before that - and you still hear some squelch tail. Ken KE2N From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Lu Vencl Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:25 AM To: bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak Hi Bryan. Thanks for the reply. Yes, I adjusted hangtime and all it does is extend the repeater hang time. As for the reverse burst method, it works great with radios that support is like Motorola portables. The problem is that the VX5-R does not support reverse burst. The repeater is a Motorola repeater, so I pulled the TX PL reed out and got excited about the chicken burst option on the APP_RPT.. But it still gives me squelch burst.. Like I said, I just need another 100 MS (200 to be safe) to make this work.. Is this a parameter that cannot be tweaked? If not, I can always build an external piece of hardware to add the additional delay on the PTT. I just thought it might be easier to do this in software. Or I can simply wait for a future APP_RPT release that might have this variable defined to help those with radios that need a little bit more time in the CTCSS timeout sequence. 73 Lu, KA4EPS From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Bryan D. Boyle Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:12 AM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak On 7/13/11 7:02 AM, Lu Vencl wrote: Looking for the parameter and file (if not in rpt.conf) where I can tweak the length of chicken burst. The current amount is not enough for my VX 5R.. I need another 200 MS to be effective. Thanks.. Lu KA4EPS Have you gone through and set your timeouts and such in rpt.conf? Additionally...are you transmitting PL tones? If you are, and you're not depending on the radio hardware (ie you're doing all the audio processing in Asterisk, and doing direct FM injection), you can try using reversing the phase of the pl before carrier drop to quiet the end user receiver before dropping RF carrier. Old technique to quiet the receiver before dropping carrier. Getting all of these to work correctly is a balancing act between what the radio can do, and how that coincides with how Asterisk views the world. Just some thoughts. 73 Bryan WB0YLE Allstar 27294 27295 27673 27710 27774...:) -- Bryan In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.

Well that would not work either.. The reverse burst needs to be only a certain duration (about 150 ms), or it will be considered a new valid PL tone. See this article for details.. http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/reverseburst.html -----Original Message----- From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 9:33 PM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak If you've pulled the PL reed but still have the board installed, the board itself is giving you about 150 ms of "chicken burst" as it's keeping the PTT keyed during the reverse burst time. Why not just install a bigger capacitor in the RC network on the tone board that determines the reverse burst period, thus extending your chicken burst? --- Jeff WN3A

-----Original Message----- From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Lu Vencl Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 9:15 PM To: 'Ken'; 'Paul J. Agamata'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

So let me lay out a few notes to clarify.

In the "notone" mode, the CTCSS encoding is present on all transmissions, including CWID, announcements etc. Then at the end of each transmission, the CTCSS encoding stops at hang timer expiration and then the PTT is released about 300-500 ms later. I will need to measure that to confirm the amount. For most radios the current amount of delay is sufficient, but Yaesu wants a tad bit more delay before the mute occurs, thus you still hear the squelch burst.. Obviously this has no bearing on operation as everything works fine, however for the purpose of improving the process / project, I simply wanted to point it out.

Sounds like this is nothing a config file can fix at this time, but in a future release, the option to tweak this parameter or perhaps a second predefined value would be a plus.

From: Ken [mailto:ke2n@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:58 PM To: 'Paul J. Agamata'; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

Hmmm - maybe I was not clear

If you let Asterisk do the CTCSS detection and generation, select "notone" in your config file and set the hang time (in the other config file) to something reasonable, then users - who have turned on their tone squelch - will hear no squelch tail. Isn't that what we are trying to do?

Ken

From: Paul J. Agamata [mailto:Sysman@Xceptions.COM] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:19 PM To: Ken; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

The parameter can be tweaked in code but I don't believe you can do it from the configuration files itself (at least I haven't found a way to do it). Another thing that might help the situation is even though your using COS from the USB, you may want to find out what your high water mark from your squelch is when you key up your repeater and set the rxsquelch to just below that. People that use non motorola radios on my repeater have no issues with squelch tail when I set it up that way. I don't know what your using for a repeater but my Quantar's work just fine setting it up that way. I use CTCSS from the Quantar instead of the software CTCSS from the software.

Paul

From: Ken <ke2n@cs.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:50:05 -1000 To: 'Lu Vencl' <vencl@att.net>, "bdboyle@bdboyle.com" <bdboyle@bdboyle.com>, "app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org" <app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

What you are talking about is in usbradio.conf

txtoctype=notone ; Transmit tone control type: no,phase,notone

; no - CTCSS tone encoding with no hang time

; phase - encode CTCSS and reverse phase

; AKA ("reverse burst") before unkeying TX

; notone - encode CTCSS and stop sending tone before unkeying TX

; AKA ("chicken burst")

I use the "notone" option as you can see.

I find that my Kenwood radio needs about 700 ms of hang time (from rpt.conf) for the CTCSS squelch to close.

If you drop the carrier after that, there is no noise. Before that - and you still hear some squelch tail.

Ken

KE2N

From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Lu Vencl Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:25 AM To: bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

Hi Bryan.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I adjusted hangtime and all it does is extend the repeater hang time.

As for the reverse burst method, it works great with radios that support is like Motorola portables.

The problem is that the VX5-R does not support reverse burst. The repeater is a Motorola repeater, so I pulled the TX PL reed out and got excited about the chicken burst option on the APP_RPT.. But it still gives me squelch burst.. Like I said, I just need another 100 MS (200 to be safe) to make this work..

Is this a parameter that cannot be tweaked?

If not, I can always build an external piece of hardware to add the additional delay on the PTT. I just thought it might be easier to do this in software.

Or I can simply wait for a future APP_RPT release that might have this variable defined to help those with radios that need a little bit more time in the CTCSS timeout sequence.

73

Lu, KA4EPS

From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Bryan D. Boyle Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:12 AM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

On 7/13/11 7:02 AM, Lu Vencl wrote:

Looking for the parameter and file (if not in rpt.conf) where I can tweak the length of chicken burst. The current amount is not enough for my VX 5R.. I need another 200 MS to be effective.

Thanks..

Lu

KA4EPS

Have you gone through and set your timeouts and such in rpt.conf? Additionally...are you transmitting PL tones? If you are, and you're not depending on the radio hardware (ie you're doing all the audio processing in Asterisk, and doing direct FM injection), you can try using reversing the phase of the pl before carrier drop to quiet the end user receiver before dropping RF carrier. Old technique to quiet the receiver before dropping carrier.

Getting all of these to work correctly is a balancing act between what the radio can do, and how that coincides with how Asterisk views the world.

Just some thoughts.

73 Bryan WB0YLE Allstar 27294 27295 27673 27710 27774...:)

-- Bryan In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.

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Ah, gotcha.. Great idea! Will try that this weekend.. The only issue is that not all of my repeaters are micors.. So hopefully the developers will consider this for the wish list for the next release.. Thanks Jeff! Lu KA4EPS -----Original Message----- From: Jeff DePolo [mailto:jd0@broadsci.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:03 PM To: 'Lu Vencl'; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak No, you missed my point. You're already using Asterisk to encode PL, and you already it configured to send chicken burst, correct? And now, you just want the chicken burst hang time to be longer than what Asterisk is providing, right? So, use the PL board *without* the PL reed to extend the chicken burst hang time. In other words, the PL board is just being used to keep the PTT keyed longer, thus extending the length of the chicken burst length. --- Jeff WN3A

-----Original Message----- From: Lu Vencl [mailto:vencl@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 9:57 PM To: 'Jeff DePolo'; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

Well that would not work either.. The reverse burst needs to be only a certain duration (about 150 ms), or it will be considered a new valid PL tone.

See this article for details.. http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/reverseburst.html

-----Original Message----- From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 9:33 PM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

If you've pulled the PL reed but still have the board installed, the board itself is giving you about 150 ms of "chicken burst" as it's keeping the PTT keyed during the reverse burst time. Why not just install a bigger capacitor in the RC network on the tone board that determines the reverse burst period, thus extending your chicken burst?

--- Jeff WN3A

...

-----Original Message----- From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Lu Vencl Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 9:15 PM To: 'Ken'; 'Paul J. Agamata'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

So let me lay out a few notes to clarify.

In the "notone" mode, the CTCSS encoding is present on all transmissions, including CWID, announcements etc. Then at the end of each transmission, the CTCSS encoding stops at hang timer expiration and then the PTT is released about 300-500 ms later. I will need to measure that to confirm the amount. For most radios the current amount of delay is sufficient, but Yaesu wants a tad bit more delay before the mute occurs, thus you still hear the squelch burst.. Obviously this has no bearing on operation as everything works fine, however for the purpose of improving the process / project, I simply wanted to point it out.

Sounds like this is nothing a config file can fix at this time, but in a future release, the option to tweak this parameter or perhaps a second predefined value would be a plus.

From: Ken [mailto:ke2n@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:58 PM To: 'Paul J. Agamata'; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

Hmmm - maybe I was not clear

If you let Asterisk do the CTCSS detection and generation, select "notone" in your config file and set the hang time (in the other config file) to something reasonable, then users - who have turned on their tone squelch - will hear no squelch tail. Isn't that what we are trying to do?

Ken

From: Paul J. Agamata [mailto:Sysman@Xceptions.COM] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:19 PM To: Ken; 'Lu Vencl'; bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

The parameter can be tweaked in code but I don't believe you can do it from the configuration files itself (at least I haven't found a way to do it). Another thing that might help the situation is even though your using COS from the USB, you may want to find out what your high water mark from your squelch is when you key up your repeater and set the rxsquelch to just below that. People that use non motorola radios on my repeater have no issues with squelch tail when I set it up that way. I don't know what your using for a repeater but my Quantar's work just fine setting it up that way. I use CTCSS from the Quantar instead of the software CTCSS from the software.

Paul

From: Ken <ke2n@cs.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:50:05 -1000 To: 'Lu Vencl' <vencl@att.net>, "bdboyle@bdboyle.com" <bdboyle@bdboyle.com>, "app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org" <app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

What you are talking about is in usbradio.conf

txtoctype=notone ; Transmit tone control type: no,phase,notone

; no - CTCSS tone encoding with no hang time

; phase - encode CTCSS and reverse phase

; AKA ("reverse burst") before unkeying TX

; notone - encode CTCSS and stop sending tone before unkeying TX

; AKA ("chicken burst")

I use the "notone" option as you can see.

I find that my Kenwood radio needs about 700 ms of hang time (from rpt.conf) for the CTCSS squelch to close.

If you drop the carrier after that, there is no noise. Before that - and you still hear some squelch tail.

Ken

KE2N

From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Lu Vencl Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:25 AM To: bdboyle@bdboyle.com; app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

Hi Bryan.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I adjusted hangtime and all it does is extend the repeater hang time.

As for the reverse burst method, it works great with radios that support is like Motorola portables.

The problem is that the VX5-R does not support reverse burst. The repeater is a Motorola repeater, so I pulled the TX PL reed out and got excited about the chicken burst option on the APP_RPT.. But it still gives me squelch burst.. Like I said, I just need another 100 MS (200 to be safe) to make this work..

Is this a parameter that cannot be tweaked?

If not, I can always build an external piece of hardware to add the additional delay on the PTT. I just thought it might be easier to do this in software.

Or I can simply wait for a future APP_RPT release that might have this variable defined to help those with radios that need a little bit more time in the CTCSS timeout sequence.

73

Lu, KA4EPS

From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Bryan D. Boyle Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:12 AM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak

On 7/13/11 7:02 AM, Lu Vencl wrote:

Looking for the parameter and file (if not in rpt.conf) where I can tweak the length of chicken burst. The current amount is not enough for my VX 5R.. I need another 200 MS to be effective.

Thanks..

Lu

KA4EPS

Have you gone through and set your timeouts and such in rpt.conf? Additionally...are you transmitting PL tones? If you are, and you're not depending on the radio hardware (ie you're doing all the audio processing in Asterisk, and doing direct FM injection), you can try using reversing the phase of the pl before carrier drop to quiet the end user receiver before dropping RF carrier. Old technique to quiet the receiver before dropping carrier.

Getting all of these to work correctly is a balancing act between what the radio can do, and how that coincides with how Asterisk views the world.

Just some thoughts.

73 Bryan WB0YLE Allstar 27294 27295 27673 27710 27774...:)

-- Bryan In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.

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Actually credit goes to Jeff DePolo for pointing out the parameter. John was just part of the discussion. Thanks everyone for the contribution and I will test this over the weekend and report back, but I think Ken has already done the dirty work. 73 Lu KA4EPS Deerfield Beach, FL Node 27869 From: app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@ohnosec.org] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 7:28 AM To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak - conclusion Let me correct something I said in a previous posting. You *can* start to get a noise burst if you make hang time too short, but the amount of time between turning off the tone and dropping the carrier is determined by a fixed parameter called TOC_NOTONE_TIME in xpmr.h (pointed out by John Boteler). After changing this you need to recompile the apps that use it. Follow the instructions at http://ohnosec.org/drupal/node/29 All the nodes on that computer will have that new timing, of course. Ken From: Ken [mailto:ke2n@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:58 PM To: 'Paul J. Agamata'; 'Lu Vencl'; 'bdboyle@bdboyle.com'; 'app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org' Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Chicken Burst tweak Hmmm - maybe I was not clear If you let Asterisk do the CTCSS detection and generation, select "notone" in your config file and set the hang time (in the other config file) to something reasonable, then users - who have turned on their tone squelch - will hear no squelch tail. Isn't that what we are trying to do? Ken