RTCM Simulcast and 9.6 MHz Phase locking
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
Thanks Joe; I would certainly be interested in your documentation. Does this solve the problem of transmit PL tone jumping phase on key up, as Hayden encountered? Joe L On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
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-- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Joe, Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder? Thanks, Kevin On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com! what radio did you used for the project? Thanks for sharing! Pierre VE2PF 2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
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Hi Joe,I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND.Try again!?Tks Reid On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote: I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com! what radio did you used for the project? Thanks for sharing! PierreVE2PF 2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>: Joe, Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder? Thanks, Kevin On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote: I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project. ______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse. Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this. Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock. If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility. Thoughts? -- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>: Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote: I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
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I think it is a bit more complicated than that. If you dither the reference oscillator of a repeater, it will also have an effect on the demodulated PL/DPL from the receiver. Some half duplex transceivers indeed apply modulation compensation directly to the reference oscillators, and others do not, but employ alternative compensation techniques. This from a Quantar Manual Modulation The active VCO receives an audio/data modulation signal from the Station Control Module via two low-pass filters. This modulation signal modulates the active VCO to produce a modulated low-level rf carrier signal. Low-frequency modulation signals (below the loop filter corner) tend to be interpreted by the PLL as VCO frequency error. A modulation compensation signal is added to the PLL _control voltage_ to cancel out this effect and allow for low frequency modulation. The trick I believe, is in the way the PL/DPL is presented to the station and if the modulation compensation adjustment is sufficient to track out the PLL's tendency to cancel the low frequency tones. Joe Leikhim On 5/8/2017 4:33 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com <mailto:rfpowerguy@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com <mailto:petem001@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com <mailto:kuggie@kuggie.com>>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
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-- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
More on this: Exciter Modulation Signals Digitized audio/data intended to be transmitted from the station is output from the DSP circuitry to a D/A converter via the TX/Voice Audio signal (p/o the Serial Synchronous Interface bus, connected between the DSP and the DSP ASIC). The digitized signal is converted to analog, level shifted and amplified, and fed to a 0-6 kHz filter. The output of the filter is then fed to one of the inputs of a multiplexer. The output of the multiplexer is fed to two individual digitally controlled potentiometers (each of which is adjusted by the Host uP via the SPI Bus) and output to the Exciter Module as modulation signals VCO MOD AUDIO and REF MOD AUDIO. On 5/8/2017 5:26 PM, Joe Leikhim wrote:
I think it is a bit more complicated than that. If you dither the reference oscillator of a repeater, it will also have an effect on the demodulated PL/DPL from the receiver. Some half duplex transceivers indeed apply modulation compensation directly to the reference oscillators, and others do not, but employ alternative compensation techniques.
This from a Quantar Manual
Modulation The active VCO receives an audio/data modulation signal from the Station Control Module via two low-pass filters. This modulation signal modulates the active VCO to produce a modulated low-level rf carrier signal.
Low-frequency modulation signals (below the loop filter corner) tend to be interpreted by the PLL as VCO frequency error. A modulation compensation signal is added to the PLL _control voltage_ to cancel out this effect and allow for low frequency modulation.
The trick I believe, is in the way the PL/DPL is presented to the station and if the modulation compensation adjustment is sufficient to track out the PLL's tendency to cancel the low frequency tones.
Joe Leikhim
On 5/8/2017 4:33 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com <mailto:rfpowerguy@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com <mailto:petem001@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com <mailto:kuggie@kuggie.com>>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
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-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
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-- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
On 5/8/17 5:26 PM, Joe Leikhim wrote:
I think it is a bit more complicated than that. If you dither the reference oscillator of a repeater, it will also have an effect on the demodulated PL/DPL from the receiver. Some half duplex transceivers indeed apply modulation compensation directly to the reference oscillators, and others do not, but employ alternative compensation techniques.
Well in this case it would only be applied to the transmitter. The receiver really doesn't need a reference to GPS. This would be a cheap and dirty way to make it work while phase locked to a GPSDO.
This from a Quantar Manual
Modulation The active VCO receives an audio/data modulation signal from the Station Control Module via two low-pass filters. This modulation signal modulates the active VCO to produce a modulated low-level rf carrier signal.
Low-frequency modulation signals (below the loop filter corner) tend to be interpreted by the PLL as VCO frequency error. A modulation compensation signal is added to the PLL _control voltage_ to cancel out this effect and allow for low frequency modulation.
Specific to the Quantar it has an internal 2.1 MHz reference derived from it's 16.4 MHz clock or 5/10 MHz external inputs. There is a separate reference from the SCM DSP chip for TX and RX. On the exciter the custom PLL chip has a dedicated REF_AUDIO input of which it uses to modulate the divided down reference frequency. The normal VCO_AUDIO is injected post filter through a resistor divider into the mod input on the VCO (UHF1-4) or into a parallel diode (VHF/UHF0/800/900). I could be wrong on my PLL theory here, but as the chip is a black box, what I know is based on logic analyzers and probing. I'm pretty confident it's modulating the reference frequency. It's the same chip as what's in the Astro Spectra.
The trick I believe, is in the way the PL/DPL is presented to the station and if the modulation compensation adjustment is sufficient to track out the PLL's tendency to cancel the low frequency tones.
While you can get it close for PL or DPL, digital modes require two point modulation. -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
Does the Quantar give you an option of running the receiver on its own reference oscillator? Reason I ask is that Motorola Simulcast don't dither the site reference oscillator of the TX to my knowledge. A multi channel simulcast system might have 20 trunked stations each with different low speed data streams at any moment. On 5/8/2017 8:17 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
On 5/8/17 5:26 PM, Joe Leikhim wrote:
I think it is a bit more complicated than that. If you dither the reference oscillator of a repeater, it will also have an effect on the demodulated PL/DPL from the receiver. Some half duplex transceivers indeed apply modulation compensation directly to the reference oscillators, and others do not, but employ alternative compensation techniques. Well in this case it would only be applied to the transmitter. The receiver really doesn't need a reference to GPS.
This would be a cheap and dirty way to make it work while phase locked to a GPSDO.
This from a Quantar Manual
Modulation The active VCO receives an audio/data modulation signal from the Station Control Module via two low-pass filters. This modulation signal modulates the active VCO to produce a modulated low-level rf carrier signal.
Low-frequency modulation signals (below the loop filter corner) tend to be interpreted by the PLL as VCO frequency error. A modulation compensation signal is added to the PLL _control voltage_ to cancel out this effect and allow for low frequency modulation. Specific to the Quantar it has an internal 2.1 MHz reference derived from it's 16.4 MHz clock or 5/10 MHz external inputs. There is a separate reference from the SCM DSP chip for TX and RX.
On the exciter the custom PLL chip has a dedicated REF_AUDIO input of which it uses to modulate the divided down reference frequency. The normal VCO_AUDIO is injected post filter through a resistor divider into the mod input on the VCO (UHF1-4) or into a parallel diode (VHF/UHF0/800/900).
I could be wrong on my PLL theory here, but as the chip is a black box, what I know is based on logic analyzers and probing. I'm pretty confident it's modulating the reference frequency. It's the same chip as what's in the Astro Spectra.
The trick I believe, is in the way the PL/DPL is presented to the station and if the modulation compensation adjustment is sufficient to track out the PLL's tendency to cancel the low frequency tones. While you can get it close for PL or DPL, digital modes require two point modulation.
-- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
On 5/9/17 2:29 AM, Joe Leikhim wrote:
Does the Quantar give you an option of running the receiver on its own reference oscillator? Reason I ask is that Motorola Simulcast don't dither the site reference oscillator of the TX to my knowledge. A multi channel simulcast system might have 20 trunked stations each with different low speed data streams at any moment.
The quantar generates a 2.1 MHz clock from the master oscillator input. A separate clock is sent to the exciter and receiver modules. It's designed so you can daisy chain every quantar off a master 10 mhz source. The PLL chip used in the exciter has a special reference modulation input where the low frequency input is taken. How this works internally is anyone's guess as it's a custom chip. -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz. On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <(727)%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
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-- -- Tim
I wonder what kind of enclosure he had it in? On 5/8/2017 11:10 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote:
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net <mailto:bryan@bryanfields.net>> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <tel:%28727%29%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com <mailto:rfpowerguy@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com <mailto:petem001@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com <mailto:kuggie@kuggie.com>>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
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-- -- Tim
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-- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
The one it comes with. On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 11:24 PM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
I wonder what kind of enclosure he had it in?
On 5/8/2017 11:10 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote:
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <%28727%29%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
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-- -- Tim
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing listApp_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.orghttp://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 <(407)%20982-0446> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
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-- -- Tim
I have searched for documentation on the PCGM. can you point me to the enclosure? On 5/11/2017 11:12 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote:
The one it comes with.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 11:24 PM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com <mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com>> wrote:
I wonder what kind of enclosure he had it in?
On 5/8/2017 11:10 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote:
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net <mailto:bryan@bryanfields.net>> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <tel:%28727%29%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com <mailto:rfpowerguy@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com <mailto:petem001@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com <mailto:kuggie@kuggie.com>>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
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-- -- Tim
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-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com <mailto:JLeikhim@Leikhim.com>
407-982-0446 <tel:%28407%29%20982-0446>
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM <http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM>
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Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
The PCGM used to be manufactured by micro-node.com which came with an enclosure similar to the RTCM http://micro-node.com/_img/rtcm1-750.jpg but smaller. Mark at micro-node.com said he was thinking of building another batch (25 or so) of PCGMs as he is seeing some demand. On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
I have searched for documentation on the PCGM. can you point me to the enclosure?
On 5/11/2017 11:12 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote:
The one it comes with.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 11:24 PM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
I wonder what kind of enclosure he had it in?
On 5/8/2017 11:10 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote:
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <%28727%29%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
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-- -- Tim
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-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 <%28407%29%20982-0446> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- -- Tim
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-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 <(407)%20982-0446> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
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-- -- Tim
He built a few for a friend of mine and I will have them at Dayton. Hit me up directly and I'll see if we have a few to spare. -- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194
On May 12, 2017, at 15:53, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote:
The PCGM used to be manufactured by micro-node.com which came with an enclosure similar to the RTCM http://micro-node.com/_img/rtcm1-750.jpg but smaller.
Mark at micro-node.com said he was thinking of building another batch (25 or so) of PCGMs as he is seeing some demand.
On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote: I have searched for documentation on the PCGM. can you point me to the enclosure?
On 5/11/2017 11:12 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote: The one it comes with.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 11:24 PM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote: I wonder what kind of enclosure he had it in?
On 5/8/2017 11:10 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote: The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote: I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>: Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote: I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
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_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- -- Tim
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. -- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- -- Tim
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Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- -- Tim _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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I know there is always the one that ask the obvious question but, what is a pcgm? Le lun. 8 mai 2017 à 23:10, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> a écrit :
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <(727)%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
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-- -- Tim _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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Political Correctness Gone Mad. 😄 Actually it's Programmable Clock Generator Module. K On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:38 PM Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I know there is always the one that ask the obvious question but, what is a pcgm?
Le lun. 8 mai 2017 à 23:10, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> a écrit :
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <(727)%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
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_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- -- Tim _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- -- Tim
A big thanks Tim. I feel less uneducated ;-) Will have to get a look at this.. 2017-05-12 12:03 GMT-04:00 Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com>:
Political Correctness Gone Mad. 😄
Actually it's Programmable Clock Generator Module.
K
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:38 PM Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I know there is always the one that ask the obvious question but, what is a pcgm?
Le lun. 8 mai 2017 à 23:10, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> a écrit :
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <(727)%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
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_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- -- Tim _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- -- Tim
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after reading on gps locked clock and pll found this. http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=107&pro... Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency reference 450 Hz to 800 MHz output this could be usefull to steer about any radio model no? Is it worth the time and money to try with this device? Le ven. 12 mai 2017 à 17:39, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> a écrit :
A big thanks Tim. I feel less uneducated ;-) Will have to get a look at this..
2017-05-12 12:03 GMT-04:00 Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com>:
Political Correctness Gone Mad. 😄
Actually it's Programmable Clock Generator Module.
K
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:38 PM Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I know there is always the one that ask the obvious question but, what is a pcgm?
Le lun. 8 mai 2017 à 23:10, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> a écrit :
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <(727)%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
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_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- -- Tim _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- -- Tim
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I purchased one of those units about 2 months ago and they work extremely well. I have used it to allow the use of Motorola Maxtrac's and GM300's for simulcast operation by externally injecting a 14.4 MHz reference into the radio from this unit. if you want a ready-made solution that will give you GPS locked accuracy and is programmable to just about any frequency you would need than this is it. On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 5:00 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
after reading on gps locked clock and pll found this. http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_ info&cPath=107&products_id=234
Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency reference 450 Hz to 800 MHz output
this could be usefull to steer about any radio model no?
Is it worth the time and money to try with this device?
Le ven. 12 mai 2017 à 17:39, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> a écrit :
A big thanks Tim. I feel less uneducated ;-) Will have to get a look at this..
2017-05-12 12:03 GMT-04:00 Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com>:
Political Correctness Gone Mad. 😄
Actually it's Programmable Clock Generator Module.
K
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:38 PM Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I know there is always the one that ask the obvious question but, what is a pcgm?
Le lun. 8 mai 2017 à 23:10, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> a écrit :
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <(727)%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users> and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
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-- -- Tim _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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So It would be good, now from what Info I have, I will still need another gps for the nmea and 1 pps to feed the rtcm? Le mer. 7 juin 2017 à 03:46, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv@gmail.com> a écrit :
I purchased one of those units about 2 months ago and they work extremely well. I have used it to allow the use of Motorola Maxtrac's and GM300's for simulcast operation by externally injecting a 14.4 MHz reference into the radio from this unit. if you want a ready-made solution that will give you GPS locked accuracy and is programmable to just about any frequency you would need than this is it.
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 5:00 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
after reading on gps locked clock and pll found this.
http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=107&pro...
Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency reference 450 Hz to 800 MHz output
this could be usefull to steer about any radio model no?
Is it worth the time and money to try with this device?
Le ven. 12 mai 2017 à 17:39, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> a écrit :
A big thanks Tim. I feel less uneducated ;-) Will have to get a look at this..
2017-05-12 12:03 GMT-04:00 Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com>:
Political Correctness Gone Mad. 😄
Actually it's Programmable Clock Generator Module.
K
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:38 PM Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I know there is always the one that ask the obvious question but, what is a pcgm?
Le lun. 8 mai 2017 à 23:10, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> a écrit :
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <(727)%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
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-- -- Tim _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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That is correct. Unfortunately the Leo Bodnar unit doesn't provide that. On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
So It would be good, now from what Info I have, I will still need another gps for the nmea and 1 pps to feed the rtcm?
Le mer. 7 juin 2017 à 03:46, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv@gmail.com> a écrit :
I purchased one of those units about 2 months ago and they work extremely well. I have used it to allow the use of Motorola Maxtrac's and GM300's for simulcast operation by externally injecting a 14.4 MHz reference into the radio from this unit. if you want a ready-made solution that will give you GPS locked accuracy and is programmable to just about any frequency you would need than this is it.
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 5:00 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
after reading on gps locked clock and pll found this. http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_ info&cPath=107&products_id=234
Low-jitter GPS-locked precision frequency reference 450 Hz to 800 MHz output
this could be usefull to steer about any radio model no?
Is it worth the time and money to try with this device?
Le ven. 12 mai 2017 à 17:39, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> a écrit :
A big thanks Tim. I feel less uneducated ;-) Will have to get a look at this..
2017-05-12 12:03 GMT-04:00 Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com>:
Political Correctness Gone Mad. 😄
Actually it's Programmable Clock Generator Module.
K
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:38 PM Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I know there is always the one that ask the obvious question but, what is a pcgm?
Le lun. 8 mai 2017 à 23:10, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> a écrit :
The PCGM were noisy. I know of a case where a ham using one was shut down by the site owner. Seems the PCGM was emitting a interfering signal on high band, around 158 Mhz.
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Bryan Fields <bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
I've been following this with some interest. One of the fundamental issues with the PCGM was the master clock going to the radio was unable to be modulated. This made low frequency signals (PL) distort, and digital PL was even worse.
Typically most radios use two point modulation, with modulation on the reference oscillator. When you add an external reference you loose this.
Some base stations are designed to do two point modulation even on an external clock, the Quantar for example. This station will even phase lock it's PL and DPL generation if provided a 1 PPS in addition to a clock.
If we could inject modulation into the clock generator simulcast performance would vastly improve. I'd be interested to see your design to see if this would be a possibility.
Thoughts?
-- Bryan Fields M: +1-727-409-1194 <(727)%20409-1194>
On May 8, 2017, at 14:15, Reid Brandon <rfpowerguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Joe, I got a page with a pic of a man that rotated around saying DOWNLOAD NOT FOUND. Try again!? Tks Reid
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:25 PM, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> wrote:
I am very interrested in all this project. My email is VE2PF @ VE2MRC dot com!
what radio did you used for the project?
Thanks for sharing!
Pierre VE2PF
2017-05-07 12:32 GMT-04:00 Kevin Custer <kuggie@kuggie.com>:
Joe,
Why not consider do it as an article for Repeater Builder?
Thanks, Kevin
On 5/7/2017 3:13 AM, Joe Moskalski wrote:
I wanted to throw this email out to the group for all those who want to simulcast with the RTCM. For those who don't know, in order to make the RTCM suitable for simulcast you must have a more accurate 9.6 MHz clock for the RTCM in order to ensure the audio sounds acceptable in the overlap areas. I did this a few months ago using 9.6 MHz OCXO's. This worked reasonably well. Not as well as I would have liked but the system was very usable, but of course I wanted it to be better. Since the PCGM (Programmable Clock Generation Module) is no longer available, I decided to roll my own as some say. I created a PLL circuit that can accept a 10 MHz, 1 MHz or 100 KHz reference input and produce a phase locked 9.6 MHz out for the RTCM. I have been testing this over the past few days and it has made an great improvement in the audio quality in the overlap. The quality of the audio in the overlap areas sounds very, very good, it's very similar to what I expect to hear in commercial simulcast systems. My circuit is heavily based off of an old Motorola MSF5000 HSO PLL circuit that I was able to adapt and modify to my needs. There are other uses for this circuit that make it attractive for simulcasting but I wont get into them here. I am will to share my schematic and bill of materials (digikey) with anyone. Please send me an email and I will be willing to share all of my information on the project.
______________________________ _________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlin k.org <App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rp t-users <http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users>
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-- -- Tim _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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participants (8)
-
Bryan Fields -
Bryan Fields
-
Joe Leikhim -
Joe Moskalski -
Kevin Custer -
Pierre Martel -
Reid Brandon -
Tim Sawyer