Non-RTCM voter, where?
On 05/03/16 06:00, mike@midnighteng.com wrote:
FYI There are RTCM /voter systems for app_rpt if you want to do it right.
Is there an example voting-RX project somewhere I can read about? Non-RTCM please. I know about the RTCM and I'm looking at alternatives. Many thanks, Steve
Here are some products to start with; There is the Raven M4x http://www.ravencomm.com/documents/products_doc3_23.pdf Raytheon JPS SNV-12 (Though the future of this product is up in the air, it was the defacto standard. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits, IP connectivity needs to be overlaid) http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/userfiles/file/appnotes/vSnv12App.pdf Motorola Spectra Tac (Obsolete Now Motorola has pretty much abandoned analog FM technology. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits,) http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra-tac/spectratac-index.html The above voters all use some method of signal/noise voting. The JPS SNV-12 and the Raven M4X use DSP to make decision, while the Spectra Tac was pretty much an analog noise measurement vs a status tone/audio AGC level. The SpectraTac does not support non-Motorola receivers unless you know the "secret sauce" which I am privy to. This site has some practical examples of projects that are simulcast, but by design incorporate the SNV-12 voters. www.simulcastsolutions.com Are you looking for some more in depth RF design aspects of receiver voting? I can help perhaps. Joe www.leikhim.com On 3/8/2016 5:20 AM, Steve Wright wrote:
On 05/03/16 06:00, mike@midnighteng.com wrote:
FYI There are RTCM /voter systems for app_rpt if you want to do it right.
Is there an example voting-RX project somewhere I can read about?
Non-RTCM please. I know about the RTCM and I'm looking at alternatives.
Many thanks, Steve
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-- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
If you looking for the alternative IP voting of the varuious app_rpt flavors you can try XIPAR: http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter It wont be as seamless of voting as a RTCM, but its much simpler, doesnt require anything more then PC's, the IP backhaul and usb radio interfaces with radios capable of giving discriminator audio. Conventional hardware voting comparators could work but require the backhaul, which in most commercial applications is 4 wire e&m voice circuits using either tone signaling or e&m signaling. (This method of voting is done outside of allstar/app_rpt.) On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
Here are some products to start with;
There is the Raven M4x
http://www.ravencomm.com/documents/products_doc3_23.pdf
Raytheon JPS SNV-12 (Though the future of this product is up in the air, it was the defacto standard. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits, IP connectivity needs to be overlaid) http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/userfiles/file/appnotes/vSnv12App.pdf
Motorola Spectra Tac (Obsolete Now Motorola has pretty much abandoned analog FM technology. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits,) http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra-tac/spectratac-index.html
The above voters all use some method of signal/noise voting. The JPS SNV-12 and the Raven M4X use DSP to make decision, while the Spectra Tac was pretty much an analog noise measurement vs a status tone/audio AGC level. The SpectraTac does not support non-Motorola receivers unless you know the "secret sauce" which I am privy to.
This site has some practical examples of projects that are simulcast, but by design incorporate the SNV-12 voters.
www.simulcastsolutions.com
Are you looking for some more in depth RF design aspects of receiver voting? I can help perhaps.
Joe
www.leikhim.com
On 3/8/2016 5:20 AM, Steve Wright wrote:
On 05/03/16 06:00, mike@midnighteng.com wrote:
FYI There are RTCM /voter systems for app_rpt if you want to do it right.
Is there an example voting-RX project somewhere I can read about?
Non-RTCM please. I know about the RTCM and I'm looking at alternatives.
Many thanks, Steve
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Jeff Ackerman kg6uyz@gmail.com
Without GPS, how does XIPAR deal with jitter and network latency? On 3/30/2016 11:25 AM, Jeff Ackerman wrote:
If you looking for the alternative IP voting of the varuious app_rpt flavors you can try XIPAR: http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter
It wont be as seamless of voting as a RTCM, but its much simpler, doesnt require anything more then PC's, the IP backhaul and usb radio interfaces with radios capable of giving discriminator audio.
Conventional hardware voting comparators could work but require the backhaul, which in most commercial applications is 4 wire e&m voice circuits using either tone signaling or e&m signaling. (This method of voting is done outside of allstar/app_rpt.)
On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com <mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com>> wrote:
Here are some products to start with;
There is the Raven M4x
http://www.ravencomm.com/documents/products_doc3_23.pdf
Raytheon JPS SNV-12 (Though the future of this product is up in the air, it was the defacto standard. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits, IP connectivity needs to be overlaid) http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/userfiles/file/appnotes/vSnv12App.pdf
Motorola Spectra Tac (Obsolete Now Motorola has pretty much abandoned analog FM technology. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits,) http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra-tac/spectratac-index.html
The above voters all use some method of signal/noise voting. The JPS SNV-12 and the Raven M4X use DSP to make decision, while the Spectra Tac was pretty much an analog noise measurement vs a status tone/audio AGC level. The SpectraTac does not support non-Motorola receivers unless you know the "secret sauce" which I am privy to.
This site has some practical examples of projects that are simulcast, but by design incorporate the SNV-12 voters.
www.simulcastsolutions.com <http://www.simulcastsolutions.com>
Are you looking for some more in depth RF design aspects of receiver voting? I can help perhaps.
Joe
www.leikhim.com <http://www.leikhim.com>
On 3/8/2016 5:20 AM, Steve Wright wrote:
On 05/03/16 06:00, mike@midnighteng.com <mailto:mike@midnighteng.com> wrote:
FYI There are RTCM /voter systems for app_rpt if you want to do it right.
Is there an example voting-RX project somewhere I can read about?
Non-RTCM please. I know about the RTCM and I'm looking at alternatives.
Many thanks, Steve
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446 <tel:407-982-0446>
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM <http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM>
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Jeff Ackerman kg6uyz@gmail.com <mailto:kg6uyz@gmail.com>
-- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
XIPAR does not do GPS timing of the audio so there will be no timing of audio. Its called "simple voter", no frills. XIPAR simply selects the best receiver based on DSP signal strength measurements. On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
Without GPS, how does XIPAR deal with jitter and network latency?
On 3/30/2016 11:25 AM, Jeff Ackerman wrote:
If you looking for the alternative IP voting of the varuious app_rpt flavors you can try XIPAR: <http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter> http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter
It wont be as seamless of voting as a RTCM, but its much simpler, doesnt require anything more then PC's, the IP backhaul and usb radio interfaces with radios capable of giving discriminator audio.
Conventional hardware voting comparators could work but require the backhaul, which in most commercial applications is 4 wire e&m voice circuits using either tone signaling or e&m signaling. (This method of voting is done outside of allstar/app_rpt.)
On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
Here are some products to start with;
There is the Raven M4x
http://www.ravencomm.com/documents/products_doc3_23.pdf
Raytheon JPS SNV-12 (Though the future of this product is up in the air, it was the defacto standard. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits, IP connectivity needs to be overlaid) http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/userfiles/file/appnotes/vSnv12App.pdf
Motorola Spectra Tac (Obsolete Now Motorola has pretty much abandoned analog FM technology. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits,) http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra-tac/spectratac-index.html
The above voters all use some method of signal/noise voting. The JPS SNV-12 and the Raven M4X use DSP to make decision, while the Spectra Tac was pretty much an analog noise measurement vs a status tone/audio AGC level. The SpectraTac does not support non-Motorola receivers unless you know the "secret sauce" which I am privy to.
This site has some practical examples of projects that are simulcast, but by design incorporate the SNV-12 voters.
www.simulcastsolutions.com
Are you looking for some more in depth RF design aspects of receiver voting? I can help perhaps.
Joe
www.leikhim.com
On 3/8/2016 5:20 AM, Steve Wright wrote:
On 05/03/16 06:00, mike@midnighteng.com wrote:
FYI There are RTCM /voter systems for app_rpt if you want to do it right.
Is there an example voting-RX project somewhere I can read about?
Non-RTCM please. I know about the RTCM and I'm looking at alternatives.
Many thanks, Steve
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit <http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit <http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Jeff Ackerman kg6uyz@gmail.com
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
-- Jeff Ackerman kg6uyz@gmail.com
On 31/03/16 05:28, Jeff Ackerman wrote:
XIPAR does not do GPS timing of the audio so there will be no timing of audio. Its called "simple voter", no frills. XIPAR simply selects the best receiver based on DSP signal strength measurements.
Obviously the 'no timing' situation is not completely traumatic for the conversational use of the repeater, as there is no widespread comments or negativity about it. The RTCM is a good idea and a good design, but with the Simulcast transmit not functioning, and no apparent developer activity there's just not enough light at the end of the tunnel to commission it everywhere. It seems to me that analog simulcast transmit is never really going to sound right. I feel uneasy about the relentless approach of digital audio into ham radio, but maybe the dream of zero-handoff multi-rx multi-tx systems means 'digital' and we're stuck with it. I'd like to be proven wrong on that. Steve
What is the problem with the RTCM and simulcast? Analog simulcast may never sound as good as a single site, because it does experience/cause time differential interference and noise and therefore requires some very specific design constraints. However, for some applications it still is the way to go. Moving forward 5-10 years, two slot DMR with IP connectivity will be the way to go. Before I get flamed, TETRA never got a foothold in the US and because FCC eliminated most 25KHz channels, getting TETRA to play in the US is reserved for those few who have the contiguous spectrum. I will confess to being a lurker here, primarily because I have interests both in the commercial LMR and the "ham radio". The RTCM and IP Simulcast support interests me because I have done a lot of simulcast design work in Public Safety and the commercial support of analog simulcast is becoming threatened with the loss of Raytheon JPS SNV-12 product. Also the commercial products are very pricey and complex. That being said, I see the RTCM as having some potential niche in the commercial LMR world. Joe On 3/30/2016 2:52 PM, Steve Wright wrote:
On 31/03/16 05:28, Jeff Ackerman wrote:
XIPAR does not do GPS timing of the audio so there will be no timing of audio. Its called "simple voter", no frills. XIPAR simply selects the best receiver based on DSP signal strength measurements.
Obviously the 'no timing' situation is not completely traumatic for the conversational use of the repeater, as there is no widespread comments or negativity about it.
The RTCM is a good idea and a good design, but with the Simulcast transmit not functioning, and no apparent developer activity there's just not enough light at the end of the tunnel to commission it everywhere.
It seems to me that analog simulcast transmit is never really going to sound right. I feel uneasy about the relentless approach of digital audio into ham radio, but maybe the dream of zero-handoff multi-rx multi-tx systems means 'digital' and we're stuck with it. I'd like to be proven wrong on that.
Steve
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida JLeikhim@Leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
I don't believe it does. Does anyone have a link to the xipar source repository? I'd like to take a look how they are doing it. It might be possible to do it via 1588 or some other network time protocol. On March 30, 2016 12:01:38 PM EDT, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com> wrote:
Without GPS, how does XIPAR deal with jitter and network latency?
On 3/30/2016 11:25 AM, Jeff Ackerman wrote:
If you looking for the alternative IP voting of the varuious app_rpt flavors you can try XIPAR: http://www.xelatec.com/xipar/simplevoter
It wont be as seamless of voting as a RTCM, but its much simpler, doesnt require anything more then PC's, the IP backhaul and usb radio
interfaces with radios capable of giving discriminator audio.
Conventional hardware voting comparators could work but require the backhaul, which in most commercial applications is 4 wire e&m voice circuits using either tone signaling or e&m signaling. (This method of voting is done outside of allstar/app_rpt.)
On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com <mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com>> wrote:
Here are some products to start with;
There is the Raven M4x
http://www.ravencomm.com/documents/products_doc3_23.pdf
Raytheon JPS SNV-12 (Though the future of this product is up in the air, it was the defacto standard. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits, IP connectivity needs to be overlaid)
http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/userfiles/file/appnotes/vSnv12App.pdf
Motorola Spectra Tac (Obsolete Now Motorola has pretty much abandoned analog FM technology. Uses 600 ohm VF circuits,)
http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra-tac/spectratac-index.html
The above voters all use some method of signal/noise voting. The JPS SNV-12 and the Raven M4X use DSP to make decision, while the Spectra Tac was pretty much an analog noise measurement vs a status tone/audio AGC level. The SpectraTac does not support non-Motorola receivers unless you know the "secret sauce" which I am privy to.
This site has some practical examples of projects that are simulcast, but by design incorporate the SNV-12 voters.
www.simulcastsolutions.com <http://www.simulcastsolutions.com>
Are you looking for some more in depth RF design aspects of receiver voting? I can help perhaps.
Joe
www.leikhim.com <http://www.leikhim.com>
On 3/8/2016 5:20 AM, Steve Wright wrote:
On 05/03/16 06:00, mike@midnighteng.com <mailto:mike@midnighteng.com> wrote:
FYI There are RTCM /voter systems for app_rpt if you want to do it right.
Is there an example voting-RX project somewhere I can read
about?
Non-RTCM please. I know about the RTCM and I'm looking at alternatives.
Many thanks, Steve
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446 <tel:407-982-0446>
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM <http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM>
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via
confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- Jeff Ackerman kg6uyz@gmail.com <mailto:kg6uyz@gmail.com>
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@Leikhim.com
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 http://bryanfields.net
participants (4)
-
Bryan Fields -
Jeff Ackerman -
Joe Leikhim -
Steve Wright