Reliability / Network Stability
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink. Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause. Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine. When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue. All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue. Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues. Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on? ~Benjamin, KB9LFZ
There have been the occasional issue of nodes not being able to connect which has been down to the database that is downloaded to your node from allstarlink not always being populated with any data. (It has only happened to people who have restarted their node for some reason) This has happened to a few people I know on a small number of occasions. There has been a little chatter about it in related forums but to be honest this is an Amateur System provided to us freely through the kind generosity of a small number of radio hams. I don’t expect it to be a military grade 100% bomb proof system and expect there to be the odd bump along the way! On another note, connections being dropped are not anything to do with allstarlink it can only be an issue with the individual nodes themselves, internet connectivity etc. All allstarlink is involved with is providing the database telling your node the IP address of all the other nodes in the system. Once you are connected it’s out of there hands. Thanks again to Steve and all the guys behind the scene… Cheers Steve M0HOY
On 27 Jun 2017, at 02:10, Benjamin Naber <Benjamin@Project23D.com> wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
~Benjamin, KB9LFZ
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
Have you tried to diagnose the problem? Sense you wrote the nodes in rpt.conf you wouldn't need a list from the master servers. So my question is, does the other nodes have your node info in their rpt.conf file? Have you tried mtr to test your nodes network? When you try to connect what does the logs or command line output say? Like to help, David KE6UPI -- Thanks, David "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." Thomas Jefferson On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 6:19 AM, Stephen Curtis <steve@m0hoy.com> wrote:
There have been the occasional issue of nodes not being able to connect which has been down to the database that is downloaded to your node from allstarlink not always being populated with any data. (It has only happened to people who have restarted their node for some reason) This has happened to a few people I know on a small number of occasions. There has been a little chatter about it in related forums but to be honest this is an Amateur System provided to us freely through the kind generosity of a small number of radio hams. I don’t expect it to be a military grade 100% bomb proof system and expect there to be the odd bump along the way!
On another note, connections being dropped are not anything to do with allstarlink it can only be an issue with the individual nodes themselves, internet connectivity etc. All allstarlink is involved with is providing the database telling your node the IP address of all the other nodes in the system. Once you are connected it’s out of there hands.
Thanks again to Steve and all the guys behind the scene…
Cheers Steve M0HOY
On 27 Jun 2017, at 02:10, Benjamin Naber <Benjamin@Project23D.com> wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
~Benjamin, KB9LFZ
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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On 6/26/17 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
When and where? Allstarlink.org is and has been online and stable for some time. Docs.allstarlink.org had a network outage recently due to a dead switch. It was rectified about 5-6 hours later by our network vendor.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
Again, when and where? Connections from node to node are direct, the only thing ASL does is build a database and push that to the nodes every 10 mins or so. If your nodes are listed as online, but they cannot talk, there is a network issue unrelated to ASL.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
This sort of "error" report is lacking. You would need to give the errors, dates/times, source node IP and AS path if you can provide that.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
No, it makes it less likely, but it in no way rules it out. Are you doing NAT or is each node on it's own IP?
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
This is nothing but scuttlebutt without evidence.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
In the last 6 months ASL has lost Jim Dixon, formally incorporated as a non-profit organization and been forced to document a number of things which Jim had in his head. "The death of God left the angels in a strange position." We had to identify the ASL infrastructure, which was spread out over a number of different locations. We've done this and have access to everything, and backups in case anything fails. We've assembled an infrastructure team and have an architecture we're building into (docker). Over the next few months we're going to move servers one by one into this environment. The mailing lists have been moved to a high performance server with real spam filtering. Nagios is watching everything and we know in 5-10 minutes when there is an outage of a service. This is a huge undertaking. Tim's working on a new website, and Steve's been running everything else including development. Oh, and all the source code is on github now too. If there's network issues we _want_ to know about them, but it must be in a detailed manner. I've responded to people on reddit and said to post details over on this list. Without detailed logs and reports we cannot do anything to confirm them. 73's -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
Sounds good Bryan! Also special shout out to the rest of the team as well.. I think i might have an idea what maybe going on in regards to your question Benjamin.. I have recently noticed heavier than normal latency on the iax ports I am not sure if service providers are doing some funny business with 4569 or what.. But what i recommend is if your having connectivity issues download mtr on to your allstarlink node.. You can install it by typing apt-get install mtr then use this command as an example mtr -rwc 100 ip-p-host-Address example command would be: mtr -rwc 100 lorentedford.com Now this will show you percentages of packet loss for each hop this is generally a good place to start in troubleshooting if your having issues.. Providing the output of the above can be very useful and assist others in seeing what type of network congestion is going on where around the country.. In the future some of us might have to look into consistent VPN services between major hubs to maintain stable connectivity and routing.. Examples being multiple hub systems where you have geographically located allstarlink hubs around the world.. Just a thought Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 6/26/17 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
When and where?
Allstarlink.org is and has been online and stable for some time.
Docs.allstarlink.org had a network outage recently due to a dead switch. It was rectified about 5-6 hours later by our network vendor.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
Again, when and where? Connections from node to node are direct, the only thing ASL does is build a database and push that to the nodes every 10 mins or so.
If your nodes are listed as online, but they cannot talk, there is a network issue unrelated to ASL.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
This sort of "error" report is lacking. You would need to give the errors, dates/times, source node IP and AS path if you can provide that.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
No, it makes it less likely, but it in no way rules it out. Are you doing NAT or is each node on it's own IP?
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
This is nothing but scuttlebutt without evidence.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
In the last 6 months ASL has lost Jim Dixon, formally incorporated as a non-profit organization and been forced to document a number of things which Jim had in his head.
"The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
We had to identify the ASL infrastructure, which was spread out over a number of different locations. We've done this and have access to everything, and backups in case anything fails. We've assembled an infrastructure team and have an architecture we're building into (docker). Over the next few months we're going to move servers one by one into this environment.
The mailing lists have been moved to a high performance server with real spam filtering. Nagios is watching everything and we know in 5-10 minutes when there is an outage of a service.
This is a huge undertaking.
Tim's working on a new website, and Steve's been running everything else including development. Oh, and all the source code is on github now too.
If there's network issues we _want_ to know about them, but it must be in a detailed manner. I've responded to people on reddit and said to post details over on this list. Without detailed logs and reports we cannot do anything to confirm them.
73's -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/ cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
Sorry for the double email forgot to add some things... Sounds good Bryan! Also special shout out to the rest of the team as well.. I think i might have an idea what maybe going on in regards to your question Benjamin.. I have recently noticed heavier than normal latency on the iax ports I am not sure if service providers are doing some funny business with 4569 or what.. But what i recommend is if your having connectivity issues download mtr on to your allstarlink node.. You can install it by typing apt-get install mtr then use this command as an example mtr -rwc 100 ip-p-host-Address example command would be: mtr -rwc 100 lorentedford.com Now this will show you percentages of packet loss for each hop this is generally a good place to start in troubleshooting if your having issues.. Providing the output of the above can be very useful and assist others in seeing what type of network congestion is going on where around the country.. In the future some of us might have to look into consistent VPN services between major hubs to maintain stable connectivity and routing.. Examples being multiple hub systems where you have geographically located allstarlink hubs around the world.. Just a thought =========================================================================== This is my added on section i forgot to post in the original email I forgot to add how to do commandline speed testing.. [root@webserver ~]# nano speedtest.sh #!/bin/bash wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sivel/speedtest-cli/master/speedtest.py --no-check-certificate chmod a+rx speedtest.py mv speedtest.py /usr/local/bin/ chown root:root /usr/local/bin/speedtest.py /usr/local/bin/speedtest.py After the above has been ran at least once I comment out everything to make it look like this.. [root@webserver ~]# cat speedtest.sh #!/bin/bash #wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sivel/speedtest-cli/master/speedtest.py --no-check-certificate #chmod a+rx speedtest.py #mv speedtest.py /usr/local/bin/ #chown root:root /usr/local/bin/speedtest.py /usr/local/bin/speedtest.py Now to run the speedtest just type sh speedtest.sh you can even have this save the output into a text file later if you wish.. Also below is an example of what an MTR report will look like loren@loren-Inspiron-1501:~$ mtr -rwc 100 lorentedford.com Start: Tue Jun 27 11:25:43 2017 HOST: loren-Inspiron-1501 Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1.|-- VerizonBRV 0.0% 100 1.6 0.8 0.6 3.1 0.2 2.|-- 113.sub-66-174-52.myvzw.com 0.0% 100 35.7 38.6 32.1 52.2 4.2 3.|-- 34.sub-69-83-89.myvzw.com 0.0% 100 39.5 39.6 24.2 53.0 4.8 4.|-- 49.sub-69-83-89.myvzw.com 0.0% 100 37.4 39.1 26.1 54.2 4.6 5.|-- 194.sub-69-83-88.myvzw.com 0.0% 100 39.7 40.7 25.6 55.3 5.1 6.|-- ??? 100.0 100 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 7.|-- ??? 100.0 100 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 8.|-- 101.sub-66-174-49.myvzw.com 0.0% 100 42.1 41.3 29.5 64.5 6.0 9.|-- 0.et-2-0-0.GW10.CHI2.ALTER.NET 0.0% 100 34.8 40.6 24.2 66.9 7.4 10.|-- 0.et-11-3-0.GW8.CHI13.ALTER.NET 0.0% 100 38.0 41.5 26.5 69.2 5.9 11.|-- ??? 100.0 100 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 12.|-- nyk-bb3-link.telia.net 0.0% 100 56.0 61.8 52.9 232.9 17.9 13.|-- nyk-b2-link.telia.net 0.0% 100 48.9 61.4 47.5 174.1 13.3 14.|-- ??? 100.0 100 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 loren@loren-Inspiron-1501:~$ Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Loren Tedford <lorentedford@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds good Bryan! Also special shout out to the rest of the team as well.. I think i might have an idea what maybe going on in regards to your question Benjamin.. I have recently noticed heavier than normal latency on the iax ports I am not sure if service providers are doing some funny business with 4569 or what.. But what i recommend is if your having connectivity issues download mtr on to your allstarlink node.. You can install it by typing apt-get install mtr then use this command as an example mtr -rwc 100 ip-p-host-Address
example command would be: mtr -rwc 100 lorentedford.com
Now this will show you percentages of packet loss for each hop this is generally a good place to start in troubleshooting if your having issues..
Providing the output of the above can be very useful and assist others in seeing what type of network congestion is going on where around the country.. In the future some of us might have to look into consistent VPN services between major hubs to maintain stable connectivity and routing.. Examples being multiple hub systems where you have geographically located allstarlink hubs around the world..
Just a thought
Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 6/26/17 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
When and where?
Allstarlink.org is and has been online and stable for some time.
Docs.allstarlink.org had a network outage recently due to a dead switch. It was rectified about 5-6 hours later by our network vendor.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
Again, when and where? Connections from node to node are direct, the only thing ASL does is build a database and push that to the nodes every 10 mins or so.
If your nodes are listed as online, but they cannot talk, there is a network issue unrelated to ASL.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
This sort of "error" report is lacking. You would need to give the errors, dates/times, source node IP and AS path if you can provide that.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
No, it makes it less likely, but it in no way rules it out. Are you doing NAT or is each node on it's own IP?
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
This is nothing but scuttlebutt without evidence.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
In the last 6 months ASL has lost Jim Dixon, formally incorporated as a non-profit organization and been forced to document a number of things which Jim had in his head.
"The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
We had to identify the ASL infrastructure, which was spread out over a number of different locations. We've done this and have access to everything, and backups in case anything fails. We've assembled an infrastructure team and have an architecture we're building into (docker). Over the next few months we're going to move servers one by one into this environment.
The mailing lists have been moved to a high performance server with real spam filtering. Nagios is watching everything and we know in 5-10 minutes when there is an outage of a service.
This is a huge undertaking.
Tim's working on a new website, and Steve's been running everything else including development. Oh, and all the source code is on github now too.
If there's network issues we _want_ to know about them, but it must be in a detailed manner. I've responded to people on reddit and said to post details over on this list. Without detailed logs and reports we cannot do anything to confirm them.
73's -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/c gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
Just a comment about using mtr or other tools that attempt to show packet loss to various ISP core or edge routers--this really does NOT give an accurate picture, in many cases, particularly for latency....The job of these routers is to forward traffic, not respond to pings. ...And, I am an ISP with core and edge routers. 73, David KB4FXC On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Loren Tedford wrote:
Sounds good Bryan! Also special shout out to the rest of the team as well.. I think i might have an idea what maybe going on in regards to your question Benjamin.. I have recently noticed heavier than normal latency on the iax ports I am not sure if service providers are doing some funny business with 4569 or what.. But what i recommend is if your having connectivity issues download mtr on to your allstarlink node.. You can install it by typing apt-get install mtr then use this command as an example mtr -rwc 100 ip-p-host-Address
example command would be: mtr -rwc 100 lorentedford.com
Now this will show you percentages of packet loss for each hop this is generally a good place to start in troubleshooting if your having issues..
Providing the output of the above can be very useful and assist others in seeing what type of network congestion is going on where around the country.. In the future some of us might have to look into consistent VPN services between major hubs to maintain stable connectivity and routing.. Examples being multiple hub systems where you have geographically located allstarlink hubs around the world..
Just a thought
Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 6/26/17 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
When and where?
Allstarlink.org is and has been online and stable for some time.
Docs.allstarlink.org had a network outage recently due to a dead switch. It was rectified about 5-6 hours later by our network vendor.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
Again, when and where? Connections from node to node are direct, the only thing ASL does is build a database and push that to the nodes every 10 mins or so.
If your nodes are listed as online, but they cannot talk, there is a network issue unrelated to ASL.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
This sort of "error" report is lacking. You would need to give the errors, dates/times, source node IP and AS path if you can provide that.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
No, it makes it less likely, but it in no way rules it out. Are you doing NAT or is each node on it's own IP?
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
This is nothing but scuttlebutt without evidence.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
In the last 6 months ASL has lost Jim Dixon, formally incorporated as a non-profit organization and been forced to document a number of things which Jim had in his head.
"The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
We had to identify the ASL infrastructure, which was spread out over a number of different locations. We've done this and have access to everything, and backups in case anything fails. We've assembled an infrastructure team and have an architecture we're building into (docker). Over the next few months we're going to move servers one by one into this environment.
The mailing lists have been moved to a high performance server with real spam filtering. Nagios is watching everything and we know in 5-10 minutes when there is an outage of a service.
This is a huge undertaking.
Tim's working on a new website, and Steve's been running everything else including development. Oh, and all the source code is on github now too.
If there's network issues we _want_ to know about them, but it must be in a detailed manner. I've responded to people on reddit and said to post details over on this list. Without detailed logs and reports we cannot do anything to confirm them.
73's -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/ cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
That's great David however most people don't want to spend the time and energy into getting a pfsense box and fighting with their provider unless they can get reasonable idea of what is going on the network side of things.. I agree ping's packet loss isn't everything but I have found that mtr is still good basic for individuals looking to trouble shooting network issues.. I can't help what providers block out on their end of the network.. However ping times and percentage of packet loss is a good start just to get an idea.. I am sorry i didn't add nothing is perfect.. So in curiosity side in the linux world what tool would you use to diagnose your connections?? This is assuming you already use ping commands and netstat commands etc.. Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:45 AM, David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
Just a comment about using mtr or other tools that attempt to show packet loss to various ISP core or edge routers--this really does NOT give an accurate picture, in many cases, particularly for latency....The job of these routers is to forward traffic, not respond to pings.
...And, I am an ISP with core and edge routers.
73, David KB4FXC
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Loren Tedford wrote:
Sounds good Bryan! Also special shout out to the rest of the team as well.. I think i might have an idea what maybe going on in regards to your question Benjamin.. I have recently noticed heavier than normal latency on the iax ports I am not sure if service providers are doing some funny business with 4569 or what.. But what i recommend is if your having connectivity issues download mtr on to your allstarlink node.. You can install it by typing apt-get install mtr then use this command as an example mtr -rwc 100 ip-p-host-Address
example command would be: mtr -rwc 100 lorentedford.com
Now this will show you percentages of packet loss for each hop this is generally a good place to start in troubleshooting if your having issues..
Providing the output of the above can be very useful and assist others in seeing what type of network congestion is going on where around the country.. In the future some of us might have to look into consistent VPN services between major hubs to maintain stable connectivity and routing.. Examples being multiple hub systems where you have geographically located allstarlink hubs around the world..
Just a thought
Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 6/26/17 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
When and where?
Allstarlink.org is and has been online and stable for some time.
Docs.allstarlink.org had a network outage recently due to a dead switch. It was rectified about 5-6 hours later by our network vendor.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
Again, when and where? Connections from node to node are direct, the only thing ASL does is build a database and push that to the nodes every 10 mins or so.
If your nodes are listed as online, but they cannot talk, there is a network issue unrelated to ASL.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
This sort of "error" report is lacking. You would need to give the errors, dates/times, source node IP and AS path if you can provide that.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
No, it makes it less likely, but it in no way rules it out. Are you doing NAT or is each node on it's own IP?
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
This is nothing but scuttlebutt without evidence.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
In the last 6 months ASL has lost Jim Dixon, formally incorporated as a non-profit organization and been forced to document a number of things which Jim had in his head.
"The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
We had to identify the ASL infrastructure, which was spread out over a number of different locations. We've done this and have access to everything, and backups in case anything fails. We've assembled an infrastructure team and have an architecture we're building into (docker). Over the next few months we're going to move servers one by one into this environment.
The mailing lists have been moved to a high performance server with real spam filtering. Nagios is watching everything and we know in 5-10 minutes when there is an outage of a service.
This is a huge undertaking.
Tim's working on a new website, and Steve's been running everything else including development. Oh, and all the source code is on github now too.
If there's network issues we _want_ to know about them, but it must be in a detailed manner. I've responded to people on reddit and said to post details over on this list. Without detailed logs and reports we cannot do anything to confirm them.
73's -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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Most core and edge routers (most notably Cisco devices) provide priority to regular packet forwarding. An ICMP reply is given much lower priority. As a result, you can't rely on the ICMP information provided by these devices under test as being accurate. David is absolutely correct with his statements. I've personally seen Cisco routers indicate ~10% packet loss while doing a ping test, but with forwarded packets being unaffected at 0% loss. On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Loren Tedford <lorentedford@gmail.com> wrote:
That's great David however most people don't want to spend the time and energy into getting a pfsense box and fighting with their provider unless they can get reasonable idea of what is going on the network side of things.. I agree ping's packet loss isn't everything but I have found that mtr is still good basic for individuals looking to trouble shooting network issues..
I can't help what providers block out on their end of the network.. However ping times and percentage of packet loss is a good start just to get an idea..
I am sorry i didn't add nothing is perfect..
So in curiosity side in the linux world what tool would you use to diagnose your connections?? This is assuming you already use ping commands and netstat commands etc..
Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:45 AM, David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
Just a comment about using mtr or other tools that attempt to show packet loss to various ISP core or edge routers--this really does NOT give an accurate picture, in many cases, particularly for latency....The job of these routers is to forward traffic, not respond to pings.
...And, I am an ISP with core and edge routers.
73, David KB4FXC
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Loren Tedford wrote:
Sounds good Bryan! Also special shout out to the rest of the team as well.. I think i might have an idea what maybe going on in regards to your question Benjamin.. I have recently noticed heavier than normal latency on the iax ports I am not sure if service providers are doing some funny business with 4569 or what.. But what i recommend is if your having connectivity issues download mtr on to your allstarlink node.. You can install it by typing apt-get install mtr then use this command as an example mtr -rwc 100 ip-p-host-Address
example command would be: mtr -rwc 100 lorentedford.com
Now this will show you percentages of packet loss for each hop this is generally a good place to start in troubleshooting if your having issues..
Providing the output of the above can be very useful and assist others in seeing what type of network congestion is going on where around the country.. In the future some of us might have to look into consistent VPN services between major hubs to maintain stable connectivity and routing.. Examples being multiple hub systems where you have geographically located allstarlink hubs around the world..
Just a thought
Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 6/26/17 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
When and where?
Allstarlink.org is and has been online and stable for some time.
Docs.allstarlink.org had a network outage recently due to a dead switch. It was rectified about 5-6 hours later by our network vendor.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
Again, when and where? Connections from node to node are direct, the only thing ASL does is build a database and push that to the nodes every 10 mins or so.
If your nodes are listed as online, but they cannot talk, there is a network issue unrelated to ASL.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
This sort of "error" report is lacking. You would need to give the errors, dates/times, source node IP and AS path if you can provide that.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
No, it makes it less likely, but it in no way rules it out. Are you doing NAT or is each node on it's own IP?
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
This is nothing but scuttlebutt without evidence.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
In the last 6 months ASL has lost Jim Dixon, formally incorporated as a non-profit organization and been forced to document a number of things which Jim had in his head.
"The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
We had to identify the ASL infrastructure, which was spread out over a number of different locations. We've done this and have access to everything, and backups in case anything fails. We've assembled an infrastructure team and have an architecture we're building into (docker). Over the next few months we're going to move servers one by one into this environment.
The mailing lists have been moved to a high performance server with real spam filtering. Nagios is watching everything and we know in 5-10 minutes when there is an outage of a service.
This is a huge undertaking.
Tim's working on a new website, and Steve's been running everything else including development. Oh, and all the source code is on github now too.
If there's network issues we _want_ to know about them, but it must be in a detailed manner. I've responded to people on reddit and said to post details over on this list. Without detailed logs and reports we cannot do anything to confirm them.
73's -- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/ cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
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_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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-- Andrew Sylthe KC9ONA
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Loren Tedford <lorentedford@gmail.com> wrote:
That's great David however most people don't want to spend the time and energy into getting a pfsense box and fighting with their provider unless they can get reasonable idea of what is going on the network side of things.. I agree ping's packet loss isn't everything but I have found that mtr is still good basic for individuals looking to trouble shooting network issues..
I can't help what providers block out on their end of the network.. However ping times and percentage of packet loss is a good start just to get an idea..
I am sorry i didn't add nothing is perfect..
So in curiosity side in the linux world what tool would you use to diagnose your connections?? This is assuming you already use ping commands and netstat commands etc..
Loren, I think you missed David's point. He's saying that ICMP loss to core routers is not an accurate assessment of their packet forwarding ability. These routers have dedicated hardware to forward packets and can do so at line rate. However, when a ping comes in addressed to them, this does not get handled by the dedicated packet forwarding chip. It must be sent to the CPU for processing. If the CPU has some free time, it will parse the ICMP packet, find the echo request, and send an echo reply. If the CPU is busy, it'll just ignore the packet. Pings are the lowest priority in a router like this. To test for packet loss, use an end-to-end tool on the same protocol as your application. In this case, test for UDP loss and jitter. You can do that with a tool like iperf: https://iperf.fr/ Tom KD7LXL
Tom can you explain a bit more on iperf? How to install and run from command line and possibly from windows? Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Tom Hayward <tom@tomh.us> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Loren Tedford <lorentedford@gmail.com> wrote:
That's great David however most people don't want to spend the time and energy into getting a pfsense box and fighting with their provider unless they can get reasonable idea of what is going on the network side of things.. I agree ping's packet loss isn't everything but I have found that mtr is still good basic for individuals looking to trouble shooting network issues..
I can't help what providers block out on their end of the network.. However ping times and percentage of packet loss is a good start just to get an idea..
I am sorry i didn't add nothing is perfect..
So in curiosity side in the linux world what tool would you use to diagnose your connections?? This is assuming you already use ping commands and netstat commands etc..
Loren,
I think you missed David's point. He's saying that ICMP loss to core routers is not an accurate assessment of their packet forwarding ability. These routers have dedicated hardware to forward packets and can do so at line rate. However, when a ping comes in addressed to them, this does not get handled by the dedicated packet forwarding chip. It must be sent to the CPU for processing. If the CPU has some free time, it will parse the ICMP packet, find the echo request, and send an echo reply. If the CPU is busy, it'll just ignore the packet. Pings are the lowest priority in a router like this.
To test for packet loss, use an end-to-end tool on the same protocol as your application. In this case, test for UDP loss and jitter. You can do that with a tool like iperf: https://iperf.fr/
Tom KD7LXL _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Loren Tedford <lorentedford@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom can you explain a bit more on iperf? How to install and run from command line and possibly from windows?
Sorry, I'm not a Windows user and don't know how. Besides, you'll want to test this between two nodes. Testing on Windows would be superfluous. On DIAL you can install it with: sudo apt update && sudo apt install -y iperf3 Tom KD7LXL
Who is your service provider? Lu Vencl
On Jun 26, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber <Benjamin@Project23D.com> wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
~Benjamin, KB9LFZ
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Ok i am playing around with iperf could some one hold my hand and explain to me exactly what i am looking for in issues with my voip traffic since mtr is not a viable solution to figuring this out?? Here is Server Side Stuff and Information root@vhf:~# sh speedtest.sh Retrieving speedtest.net configuration... Testing from OVH (158.69.235.237)... Retrieving speedtest.net server list... Selecting best server based on ping... Hosted by Fibrenoire Internet (Montreal, QC) [1.26 km]: 2.094 ms Testing download speed................................................................................ Download: 650.05 Mbit/s Testing upload speed................................................................................................ Upload: 795.92 Mbit/s root@vhf:~# root@vhf:~# iperf -s -u ------------------------------------------------------------ Server listening on UDP port 5001 Receiving 1470 byte datagrams UDP buffer size: 160 KByte (default) ------------------------------------------------------------ [ 3] local 158.69.235.237 port 5001 connected with 209.97.91.7 port 38285 [ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth Jitter Lost/Total Datagrams [ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 1.25 MBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec 1.694 ms 0/ 893 (0%) [ 4] local 158.69.235.237 port 5001 connected with 174.221.4.20 port 5940 [ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 1.25 MBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec 7.710 ms 2/ 893 (0.22%) [ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 2 datagrams received out-of-order [ 3] local 158.69.235.237 port 5001 connected with 209.97.91.7 port 37650 [ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 1.25 MBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec 1.031 ms 0/ 893 (0%) Here is my repeater site on Verizon Wireless Network.. loren@loren-Inspiron-1501:~$ iperf -c 158.69.235.237 -u ------------------------------------------------------------ Client connecting to 158.69.235.237, UDP port 5001 Sending 1470 byte datagrams UDP buffer size: 208 KByte (default) ------------------------------------------------------------ [ 3] local 192.168.1.200 port 40947 connected with 158.69.235.237 port 5001 [ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth [ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 1.25 MBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec [ 3] Sent 893 datagrams [ 3] Server Report: [ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 1.25 MBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec 7.710 ms 2/ 893 (0.22%) [ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 2 datagrams received out-of-order loren@loren-Inspiron-1501:~$ loren@loren-Inspiron-1501:~$ sh speedtest.sh Retrieving speedtest.net configuration... Testing from Verizon Wireless (174.221.4.20)... Retrieving speedtest.net server list... Selecting best server based on ping... Hosted by tzulo, inc (Chicago, IL) [2.82 km]: 49.058 ms Testing download speed................................................................................ Download: 11.51 Mbit/s Testing upload speed................................................................................................ Upload: 6.16 Mbit/s loren@loren-Inspiron-1501:~$ Here is My home internet information.. loren@loren-VirtualBox:~$ sh speedtest.sh Retrieving speedtest.net configuration... Testing from NewWave (209.97.91.7)... Retrieving speedtest.net server list... Selecting best server based on ping... Hosted by Endeavor Communications (Cloverdale, IN) [114.94 km]: 51.567 ms Testing download speed................................................................................ Download: 95.78 Mbit/s Testing upload speed................................................................................................ Upload: 9.23 Mbit/s loren@loren-VirtualBox:~$ nano iperftest.sh loren@loren-VirtualBox:~$ sh iperftest.sh ------------------------------------------------------------ Client connecting to 158.69.235.237, UDP port 5001 Sending 1470 byte datagrams UDP buffer size: 208 KByte (default) ------------------------------------------------------------ [ 3] local 192.168.9.99 port 37650 connected with 158.69.235.237 port 5001 [ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth [ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 1.25 MBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec [ 3] Sent 893 datagrams [ 3] Server Report: [ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 1.25 MBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec 1.031 ms 0/ 893 (0%) loren@loren-VirtualBox:~$ Some one explain to me what i am seeing here? What exactly is good and bad in network latency dealing with Voip Traffic? Loren Tedford (KC9ZHV) Phone: Fax: Email: lorentedford@gmail.com Email: KC9ZHV@KC9ZHV.com http://www.lorentedford.com http://www.kc9zhv.com http://forum.kc9zhv.com http://hub.kc9zhv.com http://Ltcraft.net <http://ltcraft.net/> http://voipham.com On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Lu V <luvencl8@gmail.com> wrote:
Who is your service provider?
Lu Vencl
On Jun 26, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber <Benjamin@Project23D.com> wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
~Benjamin, KB9LFZ
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WoW, who took over knology in this area. No issues, have been reported, although trying to actually talk to someone who works in their local NOC, is like pulling teeth. Their has been some issues with DNS, have no lead at to why, so I replaced the URL strings with IPs in the iax.conf. ~Benjamin, KB9LFZ On Tue, 2017-06-27 at 15:13 -0400, Lu V wrote:
Who is your service provider?
Lu Vencl
On Jun 26, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber <Benjamin@Project23D.com> wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
~Benjamin, KB9LFZ
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On 6/27/17 4:20 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote:
WoW, who took over knology in this area.
Which area is that? What is your IP?
No issues, have been reported, although trying to actually talk to someone who works in their local NOC, is like pulling teeth.
Typical of any MSO. You need know the right contacts with clue.
Their has been some issues with DNS, have no lead at to why, so I replaced the URL strings with IPs in the iax.conf.
You may want to use an alternate DNS server. -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 are google's high availability/DR'd DNS servers. -- Bryan Sent from my iPhone 6S...No electrons were harmed in the sending of this message.
On Jun 27, 2017, at 16:42, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 6/27/17 4:20 PM, Benjamin Naber wrote: WoW, who took over knology in this area.
Which area is that? What is your IP?
No issues, have been reported, although trying to actually talk to someone who works in their local NOC, is like pulling teeth.
Typical of any MSO. You need know the right contacts with clue.
Their has been some issues with DNS, have no lead at to why, so I replaced the URL strings with IPs in the iax.conf.
You may want to use an alternate DNS server.
-- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
I never rely on my ISP for DNS lookups. I find that they are good at providing me transit, but are terrible for keeping servers and services running. I am lucky enough to have a pair of DNS servers scattered about the US, but if I didnt have them, I would rely on google (8.8.8.8) Jim, K6JWN Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 27, 2017, at 1:20 PM, Benjamin Naber <Benjamin@Project23D.com> wrote:
WoW, who took over knology in this area.
No issues, have been reported, although trying to actually talk to someone who works in their local NOC, is like pulling teeth.
Their has been some issues with DNS, have no lead at to why, so I replaced the URL strings with IPs in the iax.conf.
~Benjamin, KB9LFZ
On Tue, 2017-06-27 at 15:13 -0400, Lu V wrote: Who is your service provider?
Lu Vencl
On Jun 26, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Benjamin Naber <Benjamin@Project23D.com> wrote:
Over the course of the last six months or so, I have noticed there have been some issues with allstarlink.
Either the allstarlink website doesn't work, connections are radanomly dropped on known high-reliability networks and connected equipment. All without apparent cause.
Again today, for no apparent reason, all links on several systems in this area were dropped, and were not able to connect to anyone. Some of our nodes have "direct access" to other nodes specified in the rpt.conf, and those connections worked fine.
When a node cannot connect to node 2000, or some other random one, there is an issue.
All nodes in this area have different ISPs, so it rules out the possibility of ISP issue.
Other folks I have talked to across the country have stated they have noticed similar issues.
Has anyone noticed this, and not said anything, or what is going on?
~Benjamin, KB9LFZ
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participants (11)
-
Andrew Sylthe -
Benjamin Naber -
Bryan D. Boyle -
Bryan Fields -
David McGough -
David Shaw -
Jim Nessen -
Loren Tedford -
Lu V -
Stephen Curtis -
Tom Hayward