[App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
George Csahanin
george at dyb.com
Sat Mar 30 03:11:44 UTC 2013
One reason I like my 100 watt 450 Syntor. Most receivers hear me fine.
And with the gasfet preamp addition it's real good that way :-) My
forrmer boss had a good saying "put the wattage in the cottage" (CEO of
a TV station group)
GeorgeC
On 03/29/2013 08:47 PM, Ken wrote:
>
> I think this is a case of YMMV … I find if I enable DSP squelch with
> the low-noise receiver, the squelch operation on weak signals is
> somewhat erratic. With strong signals it’s fine.
>
> Ken
>
> *From:*app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org
> [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org] *On Behalf Of *George Csahanin
> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 8:37 PM
> *To:* Pierre Martel
> *Cc:* APP RPT
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
>
> Pierre, ignore the high freq message, all of mine do that and work
> just fine...
>
> Good luck. I hope you did "save"
>
> George 2360
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2013, at 7:21 PM, "Pierre Martel" <petem001 at hotmail.com
> <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Ok got it to tune. with rxboost=1. Did I forgot to reload the data
> when I made my initial test? dont know..
>
> the program did told me that there was not a lot of high freq and
> not to use dsp.
>
> But I find this odd.. Did try another URI-x, same thing. so my URI
> are either bad or either both good.
>
> Using pin 21 and ground 19 is this a bad idea? There is a voltage
> going out from my msr2000 pin 5, I dont think it would be wise to
> plug it to the mic in dc on the URI..
>
> here is the whole process..
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739
>
> Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise
>
> tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750
>
> tries=0, setting=2, meas=8224
>
> tries=1, setting=7, meas=20627
>
> tries=2, setting=9, meas=26110
>
> tries=3, setting=9, meas=25809
>
> tries=4, setting=9, meas=26031
>
> tries=5, setting=9, meas=25882
>
> tries=6, setting=9, meas=25827
>
> DONE tries=6, setting=563, meas=25827, sqnoise=8293
>
> INFO: RX INPUT ADJUST SUCCESS.
>
> WARNING: Insufficient high frequency noise from receiver.
>
> WARNING: Rx input point may be de-emphasized and not flat.
>
> usbradio.conf setting of 'carrierfrom=dsp' not recommended.
>
> WARNING: RSSI=748 SQUELCH=500 and is set too loose.
>
> Use 'radio tune rxsquelch' to adjust.
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxsquelch
>
> Current Signal Strength is 755
>
> Current Squelch setting is 500
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxtone
>
> INFO: RX CTCSS ADJUST START.
>
> target=2400 tolerance=100
>
> tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=847
>
> tries=1, setting=2.833530, meas=2379
>
> tries=2, setting=2.858542, meas=2402
>
> tries=3, setting=2.856162, meas=2401
>
> tries=4, setting=2.856162, meas=2405
>
> tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397
>
> DONE tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397.00
>
> INFO: RX CTCSS GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.
>
> INFO: RX RSSI=989
>
> -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-2047300106'
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxvoice
>
> INFO: RX VOICE ADJUST START.
>
> target=7200 tolerance=360
>
> tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=11572
>
> tries=1, setting=0.622191, meas=6708
>
> tries=2, setting=0.667826, meas=7197
>
> tries=3, setting=0.668105, meas=6958
>
> tries=4, setting=0.668105, meas=7229
>
> tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849
>
> DONE tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849.000000
>
> INFO: RX VOICE GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.
>
> -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1459324833'
>
> -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1663732594'
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune save
>
> Saved radio tuning settings to usbradio_tune_usb28739.conf
>
> [Mar 29 20:00:14] NOTICE[2331]: chan_usbradio.c:1771 hidthread:
> USB Parameters written to EEPROM on usb28739
>
> Now after reading the second notice I am think if I am not mixing
> again with my flat vs de-emphasis audio..
>
> right now I stated that my audio is flat with rxdemod=flat... Am I ok?
>
> Thanks for your help.. this is getting in my head.. LOL
>
> *From:*George Csahanin <mailto:george at dyb.com>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, March 29, 2013 3:55 PM
>
> *To:*Pierre Martel <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of
> Denmark
>
> Last question first, yes, always save the settings unless you know
> t is only temporary.
>
> The RXNOISE test suggests that there isn not enough noise getting
> to the URI. It had the gain as high as possible and still doesn''t
> see the amount of noise it needs. Again, that does account for
> your symptom. My MSR2000 manual is a UHF unit, but the control
> side should be looking for the same amoiunt of noise, I'll get out
> the manual.
>
> OK, VHF and UHF are identical here. Where you pickup noise/rx
> detect audio is about 250mV. I really don't know if that is enough
> to drive it all. It may not be. It is amplified in the Receiver
> Audio/Squelch board to 380 mvRMS. That is off the output of U1 on
> the receive audio/squelch board which in two receiver kodels is a
> horizontal card under teh vertically slotted cards. In a single
> frequency model it is in position 7 There is no pin where the
> amplified detected audio comes out, so it requires surgery. I
> would capacitively couple itr to pin 1 of U1This is a place where
> JU101, JU102, R7 (pot) , R4 (pot),m R6 33k and U1 pin 1 connect.
>
> I'd re-check your connections and DC isolation first. I know this
> audio in might have voltage pn it. Or that may be the tranamit
> side. Wait! Just noticed something important. Your rxboost=0 on
> 28739. The amount you're off on the level should easily be made up
> there. It WILL make a difference. I just tried with rxboost=0,
> normal for me, and noted gain at 13 for that. I changed rxboost=1,
> restarted asterisk and now doe the test. Level went to 32000 gain
> at 0 or 1, and failed. Too high. Backed it down and it was ok. My
> point is that rxboost WILL make a difference for you. Then it is a
> matter of setting squelch. I look at radio tune rxsquelch several
> times and set the squelch point to be about 150 to 200 over the
> rxnoiselevel (labeled Signal Strength)
>
> GeorgeC
>
> Node 2360, try connecting when you get it...
>
> Here's my setup:
>
> [usb2360]
>
> hdwtype=0
> rxboost=0
> txboost=1
> rxctcssrelax=1
> txctcssdefault=114.8
> rxctcssfreqs=114.8
> txctcssfreqs=114.8
> rxctcssoverride=0
> carrierfrom=dsp
> ctcssfrom=dsp
> rxdemod=flat
> txprelim=yes
> txlimonly=no
> txtoctype=notone
> txmixa=composite
> txmixb=composite
> invertptt=0
> duplex=1
> rxondelay=0
> rxnoisefiltype=0
> rxsquelchdelay=100 ; delayline in ms carrier squelch tail
> eliminator
> eeprom=0
>
> Don't know what else to suggest...
>
> GeorgeC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:*Pierre Martel <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>
>
> *To:*George Csahanin <mailto:george at dyb.com> ; APP RPT
> <mailto:app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, March 29, 2013 12:57 PM
>
> *Subject:*Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state
> of Denmark
>
> Goerge, if you take a look at the receiver part of the mrs
> 2000 you will see that it connect to the back plane by a
> connector, those connection then goes to various part of the
> repeater for filtering and tone detection on vairous different
> cards.. I take the audio signal directly from pin 5 of the
> receiver board. I dont see any filtering on the reciver
> board. In fact from the service manual that you can find here
> (for the vhf receiver)
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/msr2000/pdfs/vhf-msr2000-receiver.pdf
>
> on page 7 there is a block diagram of the receiver and we can
> easily see that there is no audio limitting and or filtering
> at all on the board. Nad the leevl that I can see on my scope
> is pretty close to 250 mv as stated on the service manual..
>
> I think that the trouble is with my settings..
>
> I am working on the 28739 node.
>
> here is my usbradio.conf file
>
> [general]
>
> [usb27821]
>
> hdwtype=0
>
> rxboost=1
>
> txboost=1
>
> rxctcssrelax=1
>
> txctcssdefault=103.5
>
> rxctcssfreqs=103.5
>
> txctcssfreqs=103.5
>
> ;rxctcssoverride=0
>
> carrierfrom=dsp
>
> ctcssfrom=dsp
>
> rxdemod=flat
>
> txprelim=yes
>
> txlimonly=no
>
> txtoctype=no
>
> txmixa=composite
>
> txmixb=composite
>
> invertptt=0
>
> duplex=0
>
> rxondelay=1
>
> rxnoisefiltype=0
>
> eeprom=1
>
> [usb28739]
>
> hdwtype=0
>
> rxboost=0
>
> txboost=0
>
> rxctcssrelax=0
>
> txctcssdefault=103.5
>
> rxctcssfreqs=103.5
>
> txctcssfreqs=103.5
>
> ;rxctcssoverride=0
>
> carrierfrom=dsp
>
> ctcssfrom=dsp
>
> rxdemod=flat
>
> txprelim=yes
>
> txlimonly=no
>
> txtoctype=no
>
> txmixa=composite
>
> txmixb=composite
>
> invertptt=0
>
> duplex=1
>
> rxondelay=0
>
> rxnoisefiltype=1
>
> eeprom=1
>
> I did not touch the 27821 one since I put it down to use one
> main controler not a machine connected to port 3 of our rc210,
> so I know its not ok..
>
> when i try to tune the base noise....
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739
>
> Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise
>
> tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750
>
> tries=0, setting=2, meas=1754
>
> tries=1, setting=16, meas=16505
>
> tries=2, setting=16, meas=17517
>
> tries=3, setting=16, meas=15942
>
> tries=4, setting=16, meas=15816
>
> tries=5, setting=16, meas=16604
>
> tries=6, setting=16, meas=17943
>
> tries=7, setting=16, meas=17805
>
> tries=8, setting=16, meas=15489
>
> tries=9, setting=16, meas=18234
>
> tries=10, setting=16, meas=16747
>
> tries=11, setting=16, meas=17647
>
> DONE tries=12, setting=1000, meas=17647, sqnoise=5040
>
> ERROR: RX INPUT ADJUST FAILED.
>
> then I set rxtone and rx voice. but I have a long tail of
> noise (about 500 ms) before it stop then I have no sound and
> the courtesy tone..
>
> I never saved my settings before making test, would that be
> the problem? do i need to save the settings every time I
> adjust the system so that the settings are used in my test?
>
> *From:*George Csahanin <mailto:george at dyb.com>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, March 29, 2013 2:33 AM
>
> *To:*Pierre Martel <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state
> of Denmark
>
> Pierre, are you sure that you are getting wideband noise to
> the usb device? Before de-emphasis? I am looking at a manual
> for a MSR2000 and it shows a "variable gain amplifier (U1)
> which feeds the squalch detector, but alsdo feeds a low pass
> filter on its way to the noise gate and also feeds a
> de-emphasis network (U2). Any audio after that cannot have
> enough hi frequency component to make the setup for tune
> rxnoise work properly, which will not let the squelch work
> properly. The long squelch tail you refer to is usbradio not
> having its squelch set properly. And that cannot be done
> without wide band noise in. The result would never have enough
> hi freq noise at the uri to actually squelch the radio. What
> is eventually kmuting it is the end of input PL tone...
>
> Just my thoughts, but I have never had my hands on a MSR2000.
> I own one, just haven't received it yet.
>
> GeorgeC
>
> W2DB
>
> 2360
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:*Pierre Martel <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>
>
> *To:*APP RPT <mailto:app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
>
> *Sent:*Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:38 PM
>
> *Subject:*[App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state
> of Denmark
>
> Got that phrase in the head, and could not find a good
> title for the mail ;-)
>
> Ok Here I am again.
>
> Still with my project to have a full App_rpt controler for
> my 2 repeater system.
>
> I manage to have our msr 2000 in the shack today cause the
> exiter is giving us some trouble.
>
> so I said, lets fix the exiter AND plug in the URI so that
> I wont have to do this on site.
>
> exiter is ok, well for now...
>
> So I connect the URI pin 22 (mic AC) to pin 5 of the
> receiver inside the msr2000, why 22 there is a big dc bias
> at this place so uning the mic dc would nt be wise, I
> beleive..
>
> now I go to the computer set active radio usb 28739
>
> now I do radio tune rxnoise.. It fail.
>
> there is at leat 200 mv of audio there. changed rxboosst
> in usbradio.conf for that node, reload, no difference.
>
> still did the radio tune rxvoice and rxtone.
>
> then tested without saving , I have a big white noise at
> the end of every receiption before the coutesy tone..
>
> what Am I doing wrong?
>
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