[App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

George Csahanin george at dyb.com
Sat Mar 30 03:11:44 UTC 2013


One reason I like my 100 watt 450 Syntor. Most receivers hear me fine. 
And with the gasfet preamp addition it's real good that way :-) My 
forrmer boss had a good saying "put the wattage in the cottage" (CEO of 
a TV station group)

GeorgeC

On 03/29/2013 08:47 PM, Ken wrote:
>
> I think this is a case of YMMV … I find if I enable DSP squelch with 
> the low-noise receiver, the squelch operation on weak signals is 
> somewhat erratic. With strong signals it’s fine.
>
> Ken
>
> *From:*app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org 
> [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org] *On Behalf Of *George Csahanin
> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 8:37 PM
> *To:* Pierre Martel
> *Cc:* APP RPT
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
>
> Pierre, ignore the high freq message, all of mine do that and work 
> just fine...
>
> Good luck. I hope you did "save"
>
> George 2360
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2013, at 7:21 PM, "Pierre Martel" <petem001 at hotmail.com 
> <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Ok got it to tune. with rxboost=1. Did I forgot to reload the data
>     when I made my initial test? dont know..
>
>     the program did told me that there was not a lot of high freq and
>     not to use dsp.
>
>     But I find this odd.. Did try another URI-x, same thing. so my URI
>     are either bad or either both good.
>
>     Using pin 21 and ground 19 is this a bad idea? There is a voltage
>     going out from my msr2000 pin 5, I dont think it would be wise to
>     plug it to the mic in dc on the URI..
>
>     here is the whole process..
>
>     ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739
>
>     Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]
>
>     ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise
>
>     tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750
>
>     tries=0, setting=2, meas=8224
>
>     tries=1, setting=7, meas=20627
>
>     tries=2, setting=9, meas=26110
>
>     tries=3, setting=9, meas=25809
>
>     tries=4, setting=9, meas=26031
>
>     tries=5, setting=9, meas=25882
>
>     tries=6, setting=9, meas=25827
>
>     DONE tries=6, setting=563, meas=25827, sqnoise=8293
>
>     INFO: RX INPUT ADJUST SUCCESS.
>
>     WARNING: Insufficient high frequency noise from receiver.
>
>     WARNING: Rx input point may be de-emphasized and not flat.
>
>     usbradio.conf setting of 'carrierfrom=dsp' not recommended.
>
>     WARNING: RSSI=748 SQUELCH=500 and is set too loose.
>
>     Use 'radio tune rxsquelch' to adjust.
>
>     ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxsquelch
>
>     Current Signal Strength is 755
>
>     Current Squelch setting is 500
>
>     ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxtone
>
>     INFO: RX CTCSS ADJUST START.
>
>     target=2400 tolerance=100
>
>     tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=847
>
>     tries=1, setting=2.833530, meas=2379
>
>     tries=2, setting=2.858542, meas=2402
>
>     tries=3, setting=2.856162, meas=2401
>
>     tries=4, setting=2.856162, meas=2405
>
>     tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397
>
>     DONE tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397.00
>
>     INFO: RX CTCSS GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.
>
>     INFO: RX RSSI=989
>
>     -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-2047300106'
>
>     ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxvoice
>
>     INFO: RX VOICE ADJUST START.
>
>     target=7200 tolerance=360
>
>     tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=11572
>
>     tries=1, setting=0.622191, meas=6708
>
>     tries=2, setting=0.667826, meas=7197
>
>     tries=3, setting=0.668105, meas=6958
>
>     tries=4, setting=0.668105, meas=7229
>
>     tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849
>
>     DONE tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849.000000
>
>     INFO: RX VOICE GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.
>
>     -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1459324833'
>
>     -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1663732594'
>
>     ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune save
>
>     Saved radio tuning settings to usbradio_tune_usb28739.conf
>
>     [Mar 29 20:00:14] NOTICE[2331]: chan_usbradio.c:1771 hidthread:
>     USB Parameters written to EEPROM on usb28739
>
>     Now after reading the second notice I am think if I am not mixing
>     again with my flat vs de-emphasis audio..
>
>     right now I stated that my audio is flat with rxdemod=flat... Am I ok?
>
>     Thanks for your help.. this is getting in my head.. LOL
>
>     *From:*George Csahanin <mailto:george at dyb.com>
>
>     *Sent:*Friday, March 29, 2013 3:55 PM
>
>     *To:*Pierre Martel <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>
>
>     *Subject:*Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of
>     Denmark
>
>     Last question first, yes, always save the settings unless you know
>     t is only temporary.
>
>     The RXNOISE test suggests that there isn not enough noise getting
>     to the URI. It had the gain as high as possible and still doesn''t
>     see the amount of noise it needs. Again, that does account for
>     your symptom. My MSR2000 manual is a UHF unit, but the control
>     side should be looking for the same amoiunt of noise, I'll get out
>     the manual.
>
>     OK, VHF and UHF are identical here. Where you pickup noise/rx
>     detect audio is about 250mV. I really don't know if that is enough
>     to drive it all. It may not be. It is amplified in the Receiver
>     Audio/Squelch board to 380 mvRMS. That is off the output of U1 on
>     the receive audio/squelch board which in two receiver kodels is a
>     horizontal card under teh vertically slotted cards. In a single
>     frequency model it is in position 7 There is no pin where the
>     amplified detected audio comes out, so it requires surgery. I
>     would capacitively couple itr to pin 1 of U1This is a place where
>     JU101, JU102, R7 (pot) , R4 (pot),m R6 33k and U1 pin 1 connect.
>
>     I'd re-check your connections and DC isolation first. I know this
>     audio in might have voltage pn it. Or that may be the tranamit
>     side. Wait! Just noticed something important. Your rxboost=0 on
>     28739. The amount you're off on the level should easily be made up
>     there. It WILL make a difference. I just tried with rxboost=0,
>     normal for me, and noted gain at 13 for that. I changed rxboost=1,
>     restarted asterisk and now doe the test. Level went to 32000 gain
>     at 0 or 1, and failed. Too high. Backed it down and it was ok. My
>     point is that rxboost WILL make a difference for you. Then it is a
>     matter of setting squelch. I look at radio tune rxsquelch several
>     times and set the squelch point to be about 150 to 200 over the
>     rxnoiselevel (labeled Signal Strength)
>
>     GeorgeC
>
>     Node 2360, try connecting when you get it...
>
>     Here's my setup:
>
>     [usb2360]
>
>     hdwtype=0
>     rxboost=0
>     txboost=1
>     rxctcssrelax=1
>     txctcssdefault=114.8
>     rxctcssfreqs=114.8
>     txctcssfreqs=114.8
>     rxctcssoverride=0
>     carrierfrom=dsp
>     ctcssfrom=dsp
>     rxdemod=flat
>     txprelim=yes
>     txlimonly=no
>     txtoctype=notone
>     txmixa=composite
>     txmixb=composite
>     invertptt=0
>     duplex=1
>     rxondelay=0
>     rxnoisefiltype=0
>     rxsquelchdelay=100    ; delayline in ms carrier squelch tail
>     eliminator
>     eeprom=0
>
>     Don't know what else to suggest...
>
>     GeorgeC
>
>         ----- Original Message -----
>
>         *From:*Pierre Martel <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>
>
>         *To:*George Csahanin <mailto:george at dyb.com> ; APP RPT
>         <mailto:app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
>
>         *Sent:*Friday, March 29, 2013 12:57 PM
>
>         *Subject:*Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state
>         of Denmark
>
>         Goerge, if you take a look at the receiver part of the mrs
>         2000 you will see that it connect to the back plane by a
>         connector, those connection then goes to various part of the
>         repeater for filtering and tone detection on vairous different
>         cards.. I take the audio signal directly from pin 5 of the
>         receiver board. I dont see any filtering on the reciver
>         board.  In fact from the service manual that you can find here
>         (for the vhf receiver)
>         http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/msr2000/pdfs/vhf-msr2000-receiver.pdf
>
>         on page 7 there is a block diagram of the receiver and we can
>         easily see that there is no audio limitting and or filtering
>         at all on the board.  Nad the leevl that I can see on my scope
>         is pretty close to 250 mv as stated on the service manual..
>
>         I think that the trouble is with my settings..
>
>         I am working on the 28739 node.
>
>         here is my usbradio.conf file
>
>         [general]
>
>         [usb27821]
>
>         hdwtype=0
>
>         rxboost=1
>
>         txboost=1
>
>         rxctcssrelax=1
>
>         txctcssdefault=103.5
>
>         rxctcssfreqs=103.5
>
>         txctcssfreqs=103.5
>
>         ;rxctcssoverride=0
>
>         carrierfrom=dsp
>
>         ctcssfrom=dsp
>
>         rxdemod=flat
>
>         txprelim=yes
>
>         txlimonly=no
>
>         txtoctype=no
>
>         txmixa=composite
>
>         txmixb=composite
>
>         invertptt=0
>
>         duplex=0
>
>         rxondelay=1
>
>         rxnoisefiltype=0
>
>         eeprom=1
>
>         [usb28739]
>
>         hdwtype=0
>
>         rxboost=0
>
>         txboost=0
>
>         rxctcssrelax=0
>
>         txctcssdefault=103.5
>
>         rxctcssfreqs=103.5
>
>         txctcssfreqs=103.5
>
>         ;rxctcssoverride=0
>
>         carrierfrom=dsp
>
>         ctcssfrom=dsp
>
>         rxdemod=flat
>
>         txprelim=yes
>
>         txlimonly=no
>
>         txtoctype=no
>
>         txmixa=composite
>
>         txmixb=composite
>
>         invertptt=0
>
>         duplex=1
>
>         rxondelay=0
>
>         rxnoisefiltype=1
>
>         eeprom=1
>
>         I did not touch the 27821 one since I put it down to use one
>         main controler not a machine connected to port 3 of our rc210,
>         so I know its not ok..
>
>         when i try to tune the base noise....
>
>         ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739
>
>         Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]
>
>         ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise
>
>         tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750
>
>         tries=0, setting=2, meas=1754
>
>         tries=1, setting=16, meas=16505
>
>         tries=2, setting=16, meas=17517
>
>         tries=3, setting=16, meas=15942
>
>         tries=4, setting=16, meas=15816
>
>         tries=5, setting=16, meas=16604
>
>         tries=6, setting=16, meas=17943
>
>         tries=7, setting=16, meas=17805
>
>         tries=8, setting=16, meas=15489
>
>         tries=9, setting=16, meas=18234
>
>         tries=10, setting=16, meas=16747
>
>         tries=11, setting=16, meas=17647
>
>         DONE tries=12, setting=1000, meas=17647, sqnoise=5040
>
>         ERROR: RX INPUT ADJUST FAILED.
>
>         then I set rxtone and rx voice. but I have a long tail of
>         noise (about 500 ms) before it stop then I have no sound and
>         the courtesy tone..
>
>         I never saved my settings before making test, would that be
>         the problem? do i need to save the settings every time I
>         adjust the system so that the settings are used in my test?
>
>         *From:*George Csahanin <mailto:george at dyb.com>
>
>         *Sent:*Friday, March 29, 2013 2:33 AM
>
>         *To:*Pierre Martel <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>
>
>         *Subject:*Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state
>         of Denmark
>
>         Pierre, are you sure that you are getting wideband noise to
>         the usb device? Before de-emphasis? I am looking at a manual
>         for a MSR2000 and it shows a "variable gain amplifier (U1)
>         which feeds the squalch detector, but alsdo feeds a low pass
>         filter on its way to the noise gate and also feeds a
>         de-emphasis network (U2). Any audio after that cannot have
>         enough hi frequency component to make the setup for tune
>         rxnoise work properly, which will not let the squelch work
>         properly. The long squelch tail you refer to is usbradio not
>         having its squelch set properly. And that cannot be done
>         without wide band noise in. The result would never have enough
>         hi freq noise at the uri to actually squelch the radio. What
>         is eventually kmuting it is the end of input PL tone...
>
>         Just my thoughts, but I have never had my hands on a MSR2000.
>         I own one, just haven't received it yet.
>
>         GeorgeC
>
>         W2DB
>
>         2360
>
>             ----- Original Message -----
>
>             *From:*Pierre Martel <mailto:petem001 at hotmail.com>
>
>             *To:*APP RPT <mailto:app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
>
>             *Sent:*Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:38 PM
>
>             *Subject:*[App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state
>             of Denmark
>
>             Got that phrase in the head, and could not find a good
>             title for the mail ;-)
>
>             Ok Here I am again.
>
>             Still with my project to have a full App_rpt controler for
>             my 2 repeater system.
>
>             I manage to have our msr 2000 in the shack today cause the
>             exiter is giving us some trouble.
>
>             so I said, lets fix the exiter AND plug in the URI so that
>             I wont have to do this on site.
>
>             exiter is ok, well for now...
>
>             So I connect the URI pin 22 (mic AC) to pin 5 of the
>             receiver inside the msr2000, why 22 there is a big dc bias
>             at this place so uning the mic dc would nt be wise, I
>             beleive..
>
>             now I go to the computer set active radio usb 28739
>
>             now I do radio tune rxnoise.. It fail.
>
>             there is at leat 200 mv of audio there. changed rxboosst
>             in usbradio.conf for that node, reload, no difference.
>
>             still did the radio tune rxvoice and rxtone.
>
>             then tested without saving , I have a big white noise at
>             the end of every receiption before the coutesy tone..
>
>             what Am I doing wrong?
>

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