[App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Sat Mar 30 04:21:56 UTC 2013

I must remember that saying next time I'm on "Chook Band" and tell them I
have my wattage in my cottage ^.^

Nice one!

On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:11 PM, George Csahanin <george at dyb.com> wrote:

>  One reason I like my 100 watt 450 Syntor. Most receivers hear me fine.
> And with the gasfet preamp addition it's real good that way :-) My forrmer
> boss had a good saying "put the wattage in the cottage" (CEO of a TV
> station group)
>
> GeorgeC
>
>
> On 03/29/2013 08:47 PM, Ken wrote:
>
>  I think this is a case of YMMV … I find if I enable DSP squelch with the
> low-noise receiver, the squelch operation on weak signals is somewhat
> erratic. With strong signals it’s fine.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Ken****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org [
> mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org<app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *George Csahanin
> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 8:37 PM
> *To:* Pierre Martel
> *Cc:* APP RPT
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Pierre, ignore the high freq message, all of mine do that and work just
> fine...****
>
> ** **
>
> Good luck. I hope you did "save"****
>
> ** **
>
> George 2360
>
> Sent from my iPad****
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2013, at 7:21 PM, "Pierre Martel" <petem001 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> ****
>
>   Ok got it to tune. with rxboost=1. Did I forgot to reload the data when
> I made my initial test? dont know.. ****
>
>  ****
>
> the program did told me that there was not a lot of high freq and not to
> use dsp.****
>
>  ****
>
> But I find this odd.. Did try another URI-x, same thing. so my URI are
> either bad or either both good.****
>
>  ****
>
> Using pin 21 and ground 19 is this a bad idea? There is a voltage going
> out from my msr2000 pin 5, I dont think it would be wise to plug it to the
> mic in dc on the URI..****
>
>  ****
>
> here is the whole process..****
>
>  ****
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739****
>
> Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]****
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise****
>
> tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750****
>
> tries=0, setting=2, meas=8224****
>
> tries=1, setting=7, meas=20627****
>
> tries=2, setting=9, meas=26110****
>
> tries=3, setting=9, meas=25809****
>
> tries=4, setting=9, meas=26031****
>
> tries=5, setting=9, meas=25882****
>
> tries=6, setting=9, meas=25827****
>
> DONE tries=6, setting=563, meas=25827, sqnoise=8293****
>
> INFO: RX INPUT ADJUST SUCCESS.****
>
> WARNING: Insufficient high frequency noise from receiver.****
>
> WARNING: Rx input point may be de-emphasized and not flat.****
>
>          usbradio.conf setting of 'carrierfrom=dsp' not recommended.****
>
> WARNING: RSSI=748 SQUELCH=500 and is set too loose.****
>
>          Use 'radio tune rxsquelch' to adjust.****
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxsquelch****
>
> Current Signal Strength is 755****
>
> Current Squelch setting is 500****
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxtone****
>
> INFO: RX CTCSS ADJUST START.****
>
> target=2400 tolerance=100****
>
> tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=847****
>
> tries=1, setting=2.833530, meas=2379****
>
> tries=2, setting=2.858542, meas=2402****
>
> tries=3, setting=2.856162, meas=2401****
>
> tries=4, setting=2.856162, meas=2405****
>
> tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397****
>
> DONE tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397.00****
>
> INFO: RX CTCSS GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.****
>
> INFO: RX RSSI=989****
>
>     -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-2047300106'****
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxvoice****
>
> INFO: RX VOICE ADJUST START.****
>
> target=7200 tolerance=360****
>
> tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=11572****
>
> tries=1, setting=0.622191, meas=6708****
>
> tries=2, setting=0.667826, meas=7197****
>
> tries=3, setting=0.668105, meas=6958****
>
> tries=4, setting=0.668105, meas=7229****
>
> tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849****
>
> DONE tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849.000000****
>
> INFO: RX VOICE GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.****
>
>     -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1459324833'****
>
>     -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1663732594'****
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune save****
>
> Saved radio tuning settings to usbradio_tune_usb28739.conf****
>
> [Mar 29 20:00:14] NOTICE[2331]: chan_usbradio.c:1771 hidthread: USB
> Parameters written to EEPROM on usb28739****
>
>  ****
>
> Now after reading the second notice I am think if I am not mixing again
> with my flat vs de-emphasis audio.. ****
>
>  ****
>
> right now I stated that my audio is flat with rxdemod=flat... Am I ok?****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks for your help.. this is getting in my head.. LOL****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* George Csahanin <george at dyb.com> ****
>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 3:55 PM****
>
> *To:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com> ****
>
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> Last question first, yes, always save the settings unless you know t is
> only temporary. ****
>
>  ****
>
> The RXNOISE test suggests that there isn not enough noise getting to the
> URI. It had the gain as high as possible and still doesn''t see the amount
> of noise it needs. Again, that does account for your symptom. My MSR2000
> manual is a UHF unit, but the control side should be looking for the same
> amoiunt of noise, I'll get out the manual. ****
>
>  ****
>
> OK, VHF and UHF are identical here. Where you pickup noise/rx detect audio
> is about 250mV. I really don't know if that is enough to drive it all. It
> may not be. It is amplified in the Receiver Audio/Squelch board to 380
> mvRMS. That is off the output of U1 on the receive audio/squelch board
> which in two receiver  kodels is a horizontal card under teh vertically
> slotted cards. In a single frequency model it is in position 7 There is no
> pin where the amplified detected audio comes out, so it requires surgery. I
> would capacitively couple itr to pin 1 of U1This is a place where JU101,
> JU102, R7 (pot) , R4 (pot),m R6 33k and U1 pin 1 connect. ****
>
>  ****
>
> I'd re-check your connections and DC isolation first. I know this audio in
> might have voltage pn it. Or that may be the tranamit side. Wait! Just
> noticed something important. Your rxboost=0 on 28739. The amount you're off
> on the level should easily be made up there. It WILL make a difference. I
> just tried with rxboost=0, normal for me, and noted gain at 13 for that. I
> changed rxboost=1, restarted asterisk and now doe the test. Level went to
> 32000 gain at 0 or 1, and failed. Too high. Backed it down and it was ok.
> My point is that rxboost WILL make a difference for you. Then it is a
> matter of setting squelch. I look at radio tune rxsquelch several times and
> set the squelch point to be about 150 to 200 over the rxnoiselevel (labeled
> Signal Strength)****
>
>  ****
>
> GeorgeC****
>
> Node 2360, try connecting when you get it...****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Here's my setup:****
>
>  ****
>
> [usb2360]****
>
>  ****
>
> hdwtype=0
> rxboost=0
> txboost=1
> rxctcssrelax=1
> txctcssdefault=114.8
> rxctcssfreqs=114.8
> txctcssfreqs=114.8
> rxctcssoverride=0
> carrierfrom=dsp
> ctcssfrom=dsp
> rxdemod=flat
> txprelim=yes
> txlimonly=no
> txtoctype=notone
> txmixa=composite
> txmixb=composite
> invertptt=0
> duplex=1
> rxondelay=0
> rxnoisefiltype=0
> rxsquelchdelay=100    ; delayline in ms carrier squelch tail eliminator
> eeprom=0****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Don't know what else to suggest...****
>
>  ****
>
> GeorgeC****
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- ****
>
> *From:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com> ****
>
> *To:* George Csahanin <george at dyb.com> ; APP RPT<app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
> ****
>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 12:57 PM****
>
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> Goerge, if you take a look at the receiver part of the mrs 2000 you will
> see that it connect to the back plane by a connector, those connection then
> goes to various part of the repeater for filtering and tone detection on
> vairous different cards.. I take the audio signal directly from pin 5 of
> the receiver board. I dont see any filtering on the reciver board.  In fact
> from the service manual that you can find here (for the vhf receiver)
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/msr2000/pdfs/vhf-msr2000-receiver.pdf
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> on page 7 there is a block diagram of the receiver and we can easily see
> that there is no audio limitting and or filtering at all on the board.  Nad
> the leevl that I can see on my scope is pretty close to 250 mv as stated on
> the service manual..****
>
>  ****
>
> I think that the trouble is with my settings..****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> I am working on the 28739 node.****
>
>  ****
>
> here is my usbradio.conf file****
>
>  ****
>
> [general]****
>
>  ****
>
> [usb27821]****
>
>  ****
>
> hdwtype=0****
>
> rxboost=1****
>
> txboost=1****
>
> rxctcssrelax=1****
>
> txctcssdefault=103.5****
>
> rxctcssfreqs=103.5****
>
> txctcssfreqs=103.5****
>
> ;rxctcssoverride=0****
>
> carrierfrom=dsp****
>
> ctcssfrom=dsp****
>
> rxdemod=flat****
>
> txprelim=yes****
>
> txlimonly=no****
>
> txtoctype=no****
>
> txmixa=composite****
>
> txmixb=composite****
>
> invertptt=0****
>
> duplex=0****
>
> rxondelay=1****
>
> rxnoisefiltype=0****
>
> eeprom=1****
>
>  ****
>
> [usb28739]****
>
>  ****
>
> hdwtype=0****
>
> rxboost=0****
>
> txboost=0****
>
> rxctcssrelax=0****
>
> txctcssdefault=103.5****
>
> rxctcssfreqs=103.5****
>
> txctcssfreqs=103.5****
>
> ;rxctcssoverride=0****
>
> carrierfrom=dsp****
>
> ctcssfrom=dsp****
>
> rxdemod=flat****
>
> txprelim=yes****
>
> txlimonly=no****
>
> txtoctype=no****
>
> txmixa=composite****
>
> txmixb=composite****
>
> invertptt=0****
>
> duplex=1****
>
> rxondelay=0****
>
> rxnoisefiltype=1****
>
> eeprom=1****
>
>  ****
>
> I did not touch the 27821 one since I put it down to use one main
> controler not a machine connected to port 3 of our rc210, so I know its not
> ok..****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> when i try to tune the base noise....****
>
>  ****
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739****
>
> Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]****
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise****
>
> tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750****
>
> tries=0, setting=2, meas=1754****
>
> tries=1, setting=16, meas=16505****
>
> tries=2, setting=16, meas=17517****
>
> tries=3, setting=16, meas=15942****
>
> tries=4, setting=16, meas=15816****
>
> tries=5, setting=16, meas=16604****
>
> tries=6, setting=16, meas=17943****
>
> tries=7, setting=16, meas=17805****
>
> tries=8, setting=16, meas=15489****
>
> tries=9, setting=16, meas=18234****
>
> tries=10, setting=16, meas=16747****
>
> tries=11, setting=16, meas=17647****
>
> DONE tries=12, setting=1000, meas=17647, sqnoise=5040****
>
> ERROR: RX INPUT ADJUST FAILED.****
>
>  ****
>
> then I set rxtone and rx voice. but I have a long tail of noise (about 500
> ms) before it stop then I have no sound and the courtesy tone..****
>
>  ****
>
> I never saved my settings before making test, would that be the problem?
> do i need to save the settings every time I adjust the system so that the
> settings are used in my test?****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* George Csahanin <george at dyb.com> ****
>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 2:33 AM****
>
> *To:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com> ****
>
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> Pierre, are you sure that you are getting wideband noise to the usb
> device? Before de-emphasis? I am looking at a manual for a MSR2000 and it
> shows a "variable gain amplifier (U1) which feeds the squalch detector, but
> alsdo feeds a low pass filter on its way to the noise gate and also feeds a
> de-emphasis network (U2). Any audio after that cannot have enough hi
> frequency component to make the setup for tune rxnoise work properly, which
> will not let the squelch work properly. The long squelch tail you refer to
> is usbradio not having its squelch set properly. And that cannot be done
> without wide band noise in. The result would never have enough hi freq
> noise at the uri to actually squelch the radio. What is eventually kmuting
> it is the end of input PL tone...****
>
>  ****
>
> Just my thoughts, but I have never had my hands on a MSR2000. I own one,
> just haven't received it yet. ****
>
>  ****
>
> GeorgeC****
>
> W2DB****
>
> 2360****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- ****
>
> *From:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com> ****
>
> *To:* APP RPT <app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org> ****
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:38 PM****
>
> *Subject:* [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark****
>
>  ****
>
> Got that phrase in the head, and could not find a good title for the mail
> ;-)****
>
>  ****
>
> Ok Here I am again.****
>
>  ****
>
> Still with my project to have a full App_rpt controler for my 2 repeater
> system.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> I manage to have our msr 2000 in the shack today cause the exiter is
> giving us some trouble.****
>
>  ****
>
> so I said, lets fix the exiter AND plug in the URI so that I wont have to
> do this on site.****
>
>  ****
>
> exiter is ok, well for now...****
>
>  ****
>
> So I connect the URI pin 22 (mic AC) to pin 5 of the receiver inside the
> msr2000, why 22 there is a big dc bias at this place so uning the mic dc
> would nt be wise, I beleive..****
>
>  ****
>
> now I go to the computer set active radio usb 28739****
>
>  ****
>
> now I do radio tune rxnoise.. It fail.****
>
>  ****
>
> there is at leat 200 mv of audio there. changed rxboosst in usbradio.conf
> for that node, reload, no difference.****
>
>  ****
>
> still did the radio tune rxvoice and rxtone.****
>
>  ****
>
> then tested without saving , I have a big white noise at the end of every
> receiption before the coutesy tone..****
>
>  ****
>
> what Am I doing wrong?****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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