[App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark(well no so much)?
Pierre Martel
petem001 at hotmail.com
Sun Mar 31 15:41:53 UTC 2013
I am working a HOW TO for tuning radio so that some other not so bright as me will be able to do a tuning with out clogging the mailling list ;-).
Wi there be a place to post it on the ohnesec web page if it’s up to the standard of the group??
I will need someone more fluent then me in english to proof read it. My english is far from being good enough..
From: Pierre Martel
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:26 AM
To: jrorke at cogeco.ca ; APP RPT
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark(well no so much)?
Looks like you did gave me the info I needed.. The squelch is now set properly (850) and all is working as I wished.
Now lets work on the transmitter!
From: REDBUTTON_CTRL
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 8:05 AM
Cc: Pierre Martel ; APP RPT
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark (well no so much)?
Hi Pierre, ok looking at your output below, you did get the warning but as mentioned earlier this happens on a lot of radios but doesn't always mean it wont work.
WARNING: Insufficient high frequency noise from receiver.
WARNING: Rx input point may be de-emphasized and not flat.
usbradio.conf setting of 'carrierfrom=dsp' not recommended.
WARNING: RSSI=748 SQUELCH=500 and is set too loose.
Use 'radio tune rxsquelch' to adjust.
ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxsquelch
Current Signal Strength is 755
Current Squelch setting is 500
This is saying your squelch is open right now. If you take tone decode off you will hear the squelch noise. You need to set your squelch.
When you just do a radio tune rxsquelch, it doesn't set any thing but it reports the current measured signal and the squelch setting.
>From the above info, your squelch is set to 500 and the signal is 755. To close the squelch you need to set your squelch to a value greater then the rx signal level.
To do this, type in this command:
radio tune rxsquelch 800
This will set the squelch to 800 which is above the RX level and the squelch will close. Then do a radio tune save.
It looks like the discriminator input is ok or it wouldn't even read the rx level from your MSR 2000.
Once you confirm the squelch is now working, you can fine tune the squelch setting to your linking.
I generally find the DSP squelch needs to be 50 to 100 points above the idle RX level for reasonable operation. YMMV.
Hope this helps.
Jon VA3RQ
On 3/29/2013 8:36 PM, George Csahanin wrote:
Pierre, ignore the high freq message, all of mine do that and work just fine...
Good luck. I hope you did "save"
George 2360
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 29, 2013, at 7:21 PM, "Pierre Martel" <petem001 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Ok got it to tune. with rxboost=1. Did I forgot to reload the data when I made my initial test? dont know..
the program did told me that there was not a lot of high freq and not to use dsp.
But I find this odd.. Did try another URI-x, same thing. so my URI are either bad or either both good.
Using pin 21 and ground 19 is this a bad idea? There is a voltage going out from my msr2000 pin 5, I dont think it would be wise to plug it to the mic in dc on the URI..
here is the whole process..
ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739
Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]
ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise
tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750
tries=0, setting=2, meas=8224
tries=1, setting=7, meas=20627
tries=2, setting=9, meas=26110
tries=3, setting=9, meas=25809
tries=4, setting=9, meas=26031
tries=5, setting=9, meas=25882
tries=6, setting=9, meas=25827
DONE tries=6, setting=563, meas=25827, sqnoise=8293
INFO: RX INPUT ADJUST SUCCESS.
WARNING: Insufficient high frequency noise from receiver.
WARNING: Rx input point may be de-emphasized and not flat.
usbradio.conf setting of 'carrierfrom=dsp' not recommended.
WARNING: RSSI=748 SQUELCH=500 and is set too loose.
Use 'radio tune rxsquelch' to adjust.
ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxsquelch
Current Signal Strength is 755
Current Squelch setting is 500
ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxtone
INFO: RX CTCSS ADJUST START.
target=2400 tolerance=100
tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=847
tries=1, setting=2.833530, meas=2379
tries=2, setting=2.858542, meas=2402
tries=3, setting=2.856162, meas=2401
tries=4, setting=2.856162, meas=2405
tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397
DONE tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397.00
INFO: RX CTCSS GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.
INFO: RX RSSI=989
-- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-2047300106'
ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxvoice
INFO: RX VOICE ADJUST START.
target=7200 tolerance=360
tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=11572
tries=1, setting=0.622191, meas=6708
tries=2, setting=0.667826, meas=7197
tries=3, setting=0.668105, meas=6958
tries=4, setting=0.668105, meas=7229
tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849
DONE tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849.000000
INFO: RX VOICE GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.
-- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1459324833'
-- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1663732594'
ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune save
Saved radio tuning settings to usbradio_tune_usb28739.conf
[Mar 29 20:00:14] NOTICE[2331]: chan_usbradio.c:1771 hidthread: USB Parameters written to EEPROM on usb28739
Now after reading the second notice I am think if I am not mixing again with my flat vs de-emphasis audio..
right now I stated that my audio is flat with rxdemod=flat... Am I ok?
Thanks for your help.. this is getting in my head.. LOL
From: George Csahanin
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 3:55 PM
To: Pierre Martel
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
Last question first, yes, always save the settings unless you know t is only temporary.
The RXNOISE test suggests that there isn not enough noise getting to the URI. It had the gain as high as possible and still doesn''t see the amount of noise it needs. Again, that does account for your symptom. My MSR2000 manual is a UHF unit, but the control side should be looking for the same amoiunt of noise, I'll get out the manual.
OK, VHF and UHF are identical here. Where you pickup noise/rx detect audio is about 250mV. I really don't know if that is enough to drive it all. It may not be. It is amplified in the Receiver Audio/Squelch board to 380 mvRMS. That is off the output of U1 on the receive audio/squelch board which in two receiver kodels is a horizontal card under teh vertically slotted cards. In a single frequency model it is in position 7 There is no pin where the amplified detected audio comes out, so it requires surgery. I would capacitively couple itr to pin 1 of U1This is a place where JU101, JU102, R7 (pot) , R4 (pot),m R6 33k and U1 pin 1 connect.
I'd re-check your connections and DC isolation first. I know this audio in might have voltage pn it. Or that may be the tranamit side. Wait! Just noticed something important. Your rxboost=0 on 28739. The amount you're off on the level should easily be made up there. It WILL make a difference. I just tried with rxboost=0, normal for me, and noted gain at 13 for that. I changed rxboost=1, restarted asterisk and now doe the test. Level went to 32000 gain at 0 or 1, and failed. Too high. Backed it down and it was ok. My point is that rxboost WILL make a difference for you. Then it is a matter of setting squelch. I look at radio tune rxsquelch several times and set the squelch point to be about 150 to 200 over the rxnoiselevel (labeled Signal Strength)
GeorgeC
Node 2360, try connecting when you get it...
Here's my setup:
[usb2360]
hdwtype=0
rxboost=0
txboost=1
rxctcssrelax=1
txctcssdefault=114.8
rxctcssfreqs=114.8
txctcssfreqs=114.8
rxctcssoverride=0
carrierfrom=dsp
ctcssfrom=dsp
rxdemod=flat
txprelim=yes
txlimonly=no
txtoctype=notone
txmixa=composite
txmixb=composite
invertptt=0
duplex=1
rxondelay=0
rxnoisefiltype=0
rxsquelchdelay=100 ; delayline in ms carrier squelch tail eliminator
eeprom=0
Don't know what else to suggest...
GeorgeC
----- Original Message -----
From: Pierre Martel
To: George Csahanin ; APP RPT
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
Goerge, if you take a look at the receiver part of the mrs 2000 you will see that it connect to the back plane by a connector, those connection then goes to various part of the repeater for filtering and tone detection on vairous different cards.. I take the audio signal directly from pin 5 of the receiver board. I dont see any filtering on the reciver board. In fact from the service manual that you can find here (for the vhf receiver) http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/msr2000/pdfs/vhf-msr2000-receiver.pdf
on page 7 there is a block diagram of the receiver and we can easily see that there is no audio limitting and or filtering at all on the board. Nad the leevl that I can see on my scope is pretty close to 250 mv as stated on the service manual..
I think that the trouble is with my settings..
I am working on the 28739 node.
here is my usbradio.conf file
[general]
[usb27821]
hdwtype=0
rxboost=1
txboost=1
rxctcssrelax=1
txctcssdefault=103.5
rxctcssfreqs=103.5
txctcssfreqs=103.5
;rxctcssoverride=0
carrierfrom=dsp
ctcssfrom=dsp
rxdemod=flat
txprelim=yes
txlimonly=no
txtoctype=no
txmixa=composite
txmixb=composite
invertptt=0
duplex=0
rxondelay=1
rxnoisefiltype=0
eeprom=1
[usb28739]
hdwtype=0
rxboost=0
txboost=0
rxctcssrelax=0
txctcssdefault=103.5
rxctcssfreqs=103.5
txctcssfreqs=103.5
;rxctcssoverride=0
carrierfrom=dsp
ctcssfrom=dsp
rxdemod=flat
txprelim=yes
txlimonly=no
txtoctype=no
txmixa=composite
txmixb=composite
invertptt=0
duplex=1
rxondelay=0
rxnoisefiltype=1
eeprom=1
I did not touch the 27821 one since I put it down to use one main controler not a machine connected to port 3 of our rc210, so I know its not ok..
when i try to tune the base noise....
ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739
Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]
ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise
tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750
tries=0, setting=2, meas=1754
tries=1, setting=16, meas=16505
tries=2, setting=16, meas=17517
tries=3, setting=16, meas=15942
tries=4, setting=16, meas=15816
tries=5, setting=16, meas=16604
tries=6, setting=16, meas=17943
tries=7, setting=16, meas=17805
tries=8, setting=16, meas=15489
tries=9, setting=16, meas=18234
tries=10, setting=16, meas=16747
tries=11, setting=16, meas=17647
DONE tries=12, setting=1000, meas=17647, sqnoise=5040
ERROR: RX INPUT ADJUST FAILED.
then I set rxtone and rx voice. but I have a long tail of noise (about 500 ms) before it stop then I have no sound and the courtesy tone..
I never saved my settings before making test, would that be the problem? do i need to save the settings every time I adjust the system so that the settings are used in my test?
From: George Csahanin
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 2:33 AM
To: Pierre Martel
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
Pierre, are you sure that you are getting wideband noise to the usb device? Before de-emphasis? I am looking at a manual for a MSR2000 and it shows a "variable gain amplifier (U1) which feeds the squalch detector, but alsdo feeds a low pass filter on its way to the noise gate and also feeds a de-emphasis network (U2). Any audio after that cannot have enough hi frequency component to make the setup for tune rxnoise work properly, which will not let the squelch work properly. The long squelch tail you refer to is usbradio not having its squelch set properly. And that cannot be done without wide band noise in. The result would never have enough hi freq noise at the uri to actually squelch the radio. What is eventually kmuting it is the end of input PL tone...
Just my thoughts, but I have never had my hands on a MSR2000. I own one, just haven't received it yet.
GeorgeC
W2DB
2360
----- Original Message -----
From: Pierre Martel
To: APP RPT
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:38 PM
Subject: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
Got that phrase in the head, and could not find a good title for the mail ;-)
Ok Here I am again.
Still with my project to have a full App_rpt controler for my 2 repeater system.
I manage to have our msr 2000 in the shack today cause the exiter is giving us some trouble.
so I said, lets fix the exiter AND plug in the URI so that I wont have to do this on site.
exiter is ok, well for now...
So I connect the URI pin 22 (mic AC) to pin 5 of the receiver inside the msr2000, why 22 there is a big dc bias at this place so uning the mic dc would nt be wise, I beleive..
now I go to the computer set active radio usb 28739
now I do radio tune rxnoise.. It fail.
there is at leat 200 mv of audio there. changed rxboosst in usbradio.conf for that node, reload, no difference.
still did the radio tune rxvoice and rxtone.
then tested without saving , I have a big white noise at the end of every receiption before the coutesy tone..
what Am I doing wrong?
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