[App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark(well no so much)?

[Shane Morris]

Can't say about posting it to ohnosec, thats not my department, but if
you'd wish me to proof read the document for you, I certainly can give you
some time. I think such a document would be rather valuable to the
community.
On 01/04/2013 2:41 AM, "Pierre Martel" <petem001 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>   I am working a HOW TO for tuning  radio so that some other not so
> bright as me will be able to do a tuning with out clogging the mailling
> list ;-).
>
> Wi there be a place to post it on the ohnesec web page if it’s up to the
> standard of the group??
>
> I will need someone more fluent then me in english to proof read it. My
> english is far from being good enough..
>
>
>
>  *From:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:26 AM
> *To:* jrorke at cogeco.ca ; APP RPT <app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of
> Denmark(well no so much)?
>
>   Looks like you did gave me the info I needed.. The squelch is now set
> properly (850) and all is working as I wished.
>
> Now lets work on the transmitter!
>
>
>
>  *From:* REDBUTTON_CTRL <jrorke at cogeco.ca>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2013 8:05 AM
> *Cc:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com> ; APP RPT<app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of
> Denmark (well no so much)?
>
> Hi Pierre, ok looking at your output below, you did get the warning but as
> mentioned earlier this happens on a lot of radios but doesn't always mean
> it wont work.
>
>  WARNING: Insufficient high frequency noise from receiver.
> WARNING: Rx input point may be de-emphasized and not flat.
>          usbradio.conf setting of 'carrierfrom=dsp' not recommended.
> WARNING: RSSI=748 SQUELCH=500 and is set too loose.
>          Use 'radio tune rxsquelch' to adjust.
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxsquelch
> Current Signal Strength is 755
> Current Squelch setting is 500
>
>
> This is saying your squelch is open right now. If you take tone decode off
> you will hear the squelch noise. You need to set your squelch.
>
> When you just do a radio tune rxsquelch, it doesn't set any thing but it
> reports the current measured signal and the squelch setting.
>
> From the above info, your squelch is set to 500 and the signal is 755. To
> close the squelch you need to set your squelch to a value greater then the
> rx signal level.
> To do this, type in this command:
> radio tune rxsquelch 800
>
> This will set the squelch to 800 which is above the RX level and the
> squelch will close. Then do a radio tune save.
>
> It looks like the discriminator input is ok or it wouldn't even read the
> rx level from your MSR 2000.
>
> Once you confirm the squelch is now working, you can fine tune the squelch
> setting to your linking.
>
> I generally find the DSP squelch needs to be 50 to 100 points above the
> idle RX level for reasonable operation. YMMV.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jon VA3RQ
>
>
> On 3/29/2013 8:36 PM, George Csahanin wrote:
>
> Pierre, ignore the high freq message, all of mine do that and work just
> fine...
>
> Good luck. I hope you did "save"
>
> George 2360
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 29, 2013, at 7:21 PM, "Pierre Martel" <petem001 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>   Ok got it to tune. with rxboost=1. Did I forgot to reload the data when
> I made my initial test? dont know..
>
> the program did told me that there was not a lot of high freq and not to
> use dsp.
>
> But I find this odd.. Did try another URI-x, same thing. so my URI are
> either bad or either both good.
>
> Using pin 21 and ground 19 is this a bad idea? There is a voltage going
> out from my msr2000 pin 5, I dont think it would be wise to plug it to the
> mic in dc on the URI..
>
> here is the whole process..
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739
> Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise
> tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750
> tries=0, setting=2, meas=8224
> tries=1, setting=7, meas=20627
> tries=2, setting=9, meas=26110
> tries=3, setting=9, meas=25809
> tries=4, setting=9, meas=26031
> tries=5, setting=9, meas=25882
> tries=6, setting=9, meas=25827
> DONE tries=6, setting=563, meas=25827, sqnoise=8293
> INFO: RX INPUT ADJUST SUCCESS.
> WARNING: Insufficient high frequency noise from receiver.
> WARNING: Rx input point may be de-emphasized and not flat.
>          usbradio.conf setting of 'carrierfrom=dsp' not recommended.
> WARNING: RSSI=748 SQUELCH=500 and is set too loose.
>          Use 'radio tune rxsquelch' to adjust.
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxsquelch
> Current Signal Strength is 755
> Current Squelch setting is 500
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxtone
> INFO: RX CTCSS ADJUST START.
> target=2400 tolerance=100
> tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=847
> tries=1, setting=2.833530, meas=2379
> tries=2, setting=2.858542, meas=2402
> tries=3, setting=2.856162, meas=2401
> tries=4, setting=2.856162, meas=2405
> tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397
> DONE tries=5, setting=2.856162, meas=2397.00
> INFO: RX CTCSS GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.
> INFO: RX RSSI=989
>     -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-2047300106'
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxvoice
> INFO: RX VOICE ADJUST START.
> target=7200 tolerance=360
> tries=0, setting=1.000000, meas=11572
> tries=1, setting=0.622191, meas=6708
> tries=2, setting=0.667826, meas=7197
> tries=3, setting=0.668105, meas=6958
> tries=4, setting=0.668105, meas=7229
> tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849
> DONE tries=5, setting=0.668105, meas=6849.000000
> INFO: RX VOICE GAIN ADJUST SUCCESS.
>     -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1459324833'
>     -- Hungup 'Zap/pseudo-1663732594'
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune save
> Saved radio tuning settings to usbradio_tune_usb28739.conf
> [Mar 29 20:00:14] NOTICE[2331]: chan_usbradio.c:1771 hidthread: USB
> Parameters written to EEPROM on usb28739
>
> Now after reading the second notice I am think if I am not mixing again
> with my flat vs de-emphasis audio..
>
> right now I stated that my audio is flat with rxdemod=flat... Am I ok?
>
> Thanks for your help.. this is getting in my head.. LOL
>
>
>
>  *From:* George Csahanin <george at dyb.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 3:55 PM
> *To:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
>
>  Last question first, yes, always save the settings unless you know t is
> only temporary.
>
> The RXNOISE test suggests that there isn not enough noise getting to the
> URI. It had the gain as high as possible and still doesn''t see the amount
> of noise it needs. Again, that does account for your symptom. My MSR2000
> manual is a UHF unit, but the control side should be looking for the same
> amoiunt of noise, I'll get out the manual.
>
> OK, VHF and UHF are identical here. Where you pickup noise/rx detect audio
> is about 250mV. I really don't know if that is enough to drive it all. It
> may not be. It is amplified in the Receiver Audio/Squelch board to 380
> mvRMS. That is off the output of U1 on the receive audio/squelch board
> which in two receiver  kodels is a horizontal card under teh vertically
> slotted cards. In a single frequency model it is in position 7 There is no
> pin where the amplified detected audio comes out, so it requires surgery. I
> would capacitively couple itr to pin 1 of U1This is a place where JU101,
> JU102, R7 (pot) , R4 (pot),m R6 33k and U1 pin 1 connect.
>
> I'd re-check your connections and DC isolation first. I know this audio in
> might have voltage pn it. Or that may be the tranamit side. Wait! Just
> noticed something important. Your rxboost=0 on 28739. The amount you're off
> on the level should easily be made up there. It WILL make a difference. I
> just tried with rxboost=0, normal for me, and noted gain at 13 for that. I
> changed rxboost=1, restarted asterisk and now doe the test. Level went to
> 32000 gain at 0 or 1, and failed. Too high. Backed it down and it was ok.
> My point is that rxboost WILL make a difference for you. Then it is a
> matter of setting squelch. I look at radio tune rxsquelch several times and
> set the squelch point to be about 150 to 200 over the rxnoiselevel (labeled
> Signal Strength)
>
> GeorgeC
> Node 2360, try connecting when you get it...
>
>
> Here's my setup:
>
> [usb2360]
>
> hdwtype=0
> rxboost=0
> txboost=1
> rxctcssrelax=1
> txctcssdefault=114.8
> rxctcssfreqs=114.8
> txctcssfreqs=114.8
> rxctcssoverride=0
> carrierfrom=dsp
> ctcssfrom=dsp
> rxdemod=flat
> txprelim=yes
> txlimonly=no
> txtoctype=notone
> txmixa=composite
> txmixb=composite
> invertptt=0
> duplex=1
> rxondelay=0
> rxnoisefiltype=0
> rxsquelchdelay=100    ; delayline in ms carrier squelch tail eliminator
> eeprom=0
>
>
> Don't know what else to suggest...
>
> GeorgeC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com>
> *To:* George Csahanin <george at dyb.com> ; APP RPT<app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 12:57 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
>
>  Goerge, if you take a look at the receiver part of the mrs 2000 you will
> see that it connect to the back plane by a connector, those connection then
> goes to various part of the repeater for filtering and tone detection on
> vairous different cards.. I take the audio signal directly from pin 5 of
> the receiver board. I dont see any filtering on the reciver board.  In fact
> from the service manual that you can find here (for the vhf receiver)
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/msr2000/pdfs/vhf-msr2000-receiver.pdf
>
> on page 7 there is a block diagram of the receiver and we can easily see
> that there is no audio limitting and or filtering at all on the board.  Nad
> the leevl that I can see on my scope is pretty close to 250 mv as stated on
> the service manual..
>
> I think that the trouble is with my settings..
>
>
> I am working on the 28739 node.
>
> here is my usbradio.conf file
>
> [general]
>
> [usb27821]
>
> hdwtype=0
> rxboost=1
> txboost=1
> rxctcssrelax=1
> txctcssdefault=103.5
> rxctcssfreqs=103.5
> txctcssfreqs=103.5
> ;rxctcssoverride=0
> carrierfrom=dsp
> ctcssfrom=dsp
> rxdemod=flat
> txprelim=yes
> txlimonly=no
> txtoctype=no
> txmixa=composite
> txmixb=composite
> invertptt=0
> duplex=0
> rxondelay=1
> rxnoisefiltype=0
> eeprom=1
>
> [usb28739]
>
> hdwtype=0
> rxboost=0
> txboost=0
> rxctcssrelax=0
> txctcssdefault=103.5
> rxctcssfreqs=103.5
> txctcssfreqs=103.5
> ;rxctcssoverride=0
> carrierfrom=dsp
> ctcssfrom=dsp
> rxdemod=flat
> txprelim=yes
> txlimonly=no
> txtoctype=no
> txmixa=composite
> txmixb=composite
> invertptt=0
> duplex=1
> rxondelay=0
> rxnoisefiltype=1
> eeprom=1
>
> I did not touch the 27821 one since I put it down to use one main
> controler not a machine connected to port 3 of our rc210, so I know its not
> ok..
>
>
> when i try to tune the base noise....
>
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio active usb28739
> Active (command) USB Radio device set to [usb28739]
> ve2mrc*CLI> radio tune rxnoise
> tune rxnoise maxtries=12, target=27000, tolerance=2750
> tries=0, setting=2, meas=1754
> tries=1, setting=16, meas=16505
> tries=2, setting=16, meas=17517
> tries=3, setting=16, meas=15942
> tries=4, setting=16, meas=15816
> tries=5, setting=16, meas=16604
> tries=6, setting=16, meas=17943
> tries=7, setting=16, meas=17805
> tries=8, setting=16, meas=15489
> tries=9, setting=16, meas=18234
> tries=10, setting=16, meas=16747
> tries=11, setting=16, meas=17647
> DONE tries=12, setting=1000, meas=17647, sqnoise=5040
> ERROR: RX INPUT ADJUST FAILED.
>
> then I set rxtone and rx voice. but I have a long tail of noise (about 500
> ms) before it stop then I have no sound and the courtesy tone..
>
> I never saved my settings before making test, would that be the problem?
> do i need to save the settings every time I adjust the system so that the
> settings are used in my test?
>
>
>
>
>  *From:* George Csahanin <george at dyb.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 2:33 AM
> *To:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
>
>  Pierre, are you sure that you are getting wideband noise to the usb
> device? Before de-emphasis? I am looking at a manual for a MSR2000 and it
> shows a "variable gain amplifier (U1) which feeds the squalch detector, but
> alsdo feeds a low pass filter on its way to the noise gate and also feeds a
> de-emphasis network (U2). Any audio after that cannot have enough hi
> frequency component to make the setup for tune rxnoise work properly, which
> will not let the squelch work properly. The long squelch tail you refer to
> is usbradio not having its squelch set properly. And that cannot be done
> without wide band noise in. The result would never have enough hi freq
> noise at the uri to actually squelch the radio. What is eventually kmuting
> it is the end of input PL tone...
>
> Just my thoughts, but I have never had my hands on a MSR2000. I own one,
> just haven't received it yet.
>
> GeorgeC
> W2DB
> 2360
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Pierre Martel <petem001 at hotmail.com>
> *To:* APP RPT <app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:38 PM
> *Subject:* [App_rpt-users] Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
>
>  Got that phrase in the head, and could not find a good title for the
> mail ;-)
>
> Ok Here I am again.
>
> Still with my project to have a full App_rpt controler for my 2 repeater
> system.
>
>
> I manage to have our msr 2000 in the shack today cause the exiter is
> giving us some trouble.
>
> so I said, lets fix the exiter AND plug in the URI so that I wont have to
> do this on site.
>
> exiter is ok, well for now...
>
> So I connect the URI pin 22 (mic AC) to pin 5 of the receiver inside the
> msr2000, why 22 there is a big dc bias at this place so uning the mic dc
> would nt be wise, I beleive..
>
> now I go to the computer set active radio usb 28739
>
> now I do radio tune rxnoise.. It fail.
>
> there is at leat 200 mv of audio there. changed rxboosst in usbradio.conf
> for that node, reload, no difference.
>
> still did the radio tune rxvoice and rxtone.
>
> then tested without saving , I have a big white noise at the end of every
> receiption before the coutesy tone..
>
> what Am I doing wrong?
>
>
>
>
>
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