[App_rpt-users] Multiple Repeaters Per Site

Sat Mar 21 21:41:46 UTC 2015

We run a hybrid of Linux (Allstar – IRLP – other) at our remote sites, but
we do front end the computers with a number of RLC-DSP404.  Our approach
assumes that you have the $$$ to complete.

In our group we are strong believers in server grade technologies, i.e. It
comes with a firmware based kvm/ip mini-os, that allows you to ethernet
connect and communicate with a serial port connected to the OS, regardless
of the shape / state it is in – making fsck possible.  You can then have
access to the bios and if you have a spare connected drive, then you switch
it out.  Pricing on server grade packages are sub $1K if not more.

Remote sites – you should strongly consider SSD.  Much less heat than a
spinning drive and delivers 3 times or better performance.  If you need to
do a fsck, then it goes by much much quicker.  You should also build in
“sync”s in Linux to regularly flush out the system memory to the SSD.

VM do not at this stage work well with Allstar.  Avoid the pain of trying
and realizing your time was lost.

We also run DC and AC power ethernet accessed controllers, has helped to
sort out a number of issues, that would have prompted a site visit.

Having put forth ways to fortify your remote repeater site, I will still
promise you that things do break, but it is how you plan for it that puts
you in the best position to run a sustaining operation.  Unfortunately
higher service levels, means higher dollars.

Keith
VA3YC

On 3/21/15 4:38 PM, "R. Wayne" <allstar at controlservers.net> wrote:

> Allstar wasn’t an option when our repeater was first activated and ultimately
> grew into three sites. There is something to be said about each repeater being
> able to drop out and connect elsewhere. But that isn’t our current situation.
>  
> As I stated this is partly about $$$. We already have the RC-210’s and need to
> question over $1k per site. You cannot run FSCK via SSH if the file system is
> really FUBARed. How will you reformat and restore from a back-up without going
> to the site? Our sites are at >5k feet and often inaccessible due to snow.
> Without KVM/IP you will lose connectivity. I have been a network administrator
> for many, many years. Been there; done that. Your point is well taken that a
> small OS can be recovered faster than terabytes but only if you can drive to
> the site. I remain very hesitant to become PC-based at a remote site.
>  
> One point on VM containers. A PC that has multiple or even a single container
> [some still call it a node] can have a scheduled backup run to a remote PC. If
> the node or even the PC fails it may be restored by issuing a simple command
> on the back-up server that would in our case be located in our data center. No
> KVM/IP needed in this case; just a second PC running Linux/Virtuozzo/VMWare.
> In a CRON one enters vzbackup –Cg –p –e [nodeID][nodeID] one time unless you
> alter the config file(s). Restoring is just as easy once a P2 that finally
> died has been replaced with another legacy PC just as aged and long in the
> tooth. It is one thing to say that the overhead is minimal and that a P2 will
> work and still another to use something with a limited supply of spare parts.
>  
> Why such a powerful hub? Because a have a room full of already built server
> class PC’s for free.  Add a HDD and go. Most of the boards don’t have SATA/IDE
> busses in anticipation of an external controller that actually could be
> SATA/SSD. But would you really risk an out-dated P2 at a remote possibly
> inaccessible site? But we also would like to share with others. This is why
> our preference of RTCM’s. Regardless of a RC-210 controller we can be all
> Allstar-based without PC’s at remote sites far cheaper than with. No moving
> parts.
>  
> I think that the initial question has been answered but each of you has given
> me things to think about. At this point I am leaning towards using the
> RC-210’s rather than selling them on eBay for far less than we paid.  One
> RTCM, one node number, X number of repeaters/remote bases. If it doesn’t work
> we can change it and add RTCM’s for each repeater.
>  
> From: Robert A. Poff <mailto:wb3awj at comcast.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 1:01 PM
> To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] Multiple Repeaters Per Site
>  
> How many simultaneous connections are you talking about that you need that
> kind of horsepower?
> 
> One on the nice things about this software is how relatively low the overhead
> is. 
> 
> I have run two usbradio (URI) nodes and a hub on a P4 3.2 GHZ machine with 2
> GB of ram, and 80 GB of disk. An IBM Think center Small Form Factor desktop to
> be exact. 
> 
> My first setup here at home was a P2 800 MHZ with 512 MB of RAM, and I think
> maybe 40GB of disk (that I happened to have on hand). That ran a simplex base
> and a hub. 
> 
> My favorite hardware thus far is a Super Micro Atom D2550 1 RU box, with 4GB
> of RAM. It now has a 500 GB conventional disk in it. After the SSD that it
> came with failed one month out of the warranty period. Also using that box for
> my others to rsync with to backup files.
> 
> My standard setup now is a repeater and a hub on each box.
> 
> As far as a long time to recover after power failure, hasn't been a problem
> for me in the last 4-5 years. But then I'm not maintaining terabytes of
> (un-needed) disk at the sites.
> 
> No multiple container VM's or any of that stuff. Define the multiple nodes in
> the config files.
> 
> Nor have I found the need for an IP KVM.
> 
> And in a multiple repeater system, it's so very convenient to have them
> connected via a hub node. Each node in the group can then drop out and connect
> somewhere else, say for a net or something, without dragging the others along.
> 
> I'm about to connect a BBB node to one of our local club's RC-210. So I've
> read up on the controller. OK, the RC-210 is very capable. But, I think they
> would have been better off basing the repeater on Allstar to begin with.
> 
> 《/SOAPBOX》
> 
> 
> On March 21, 2015 1:42:26 PM EDT, "R. Wayne" <allstar at controlservers.net>
> wrote: 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Thank you all for some fresh ideas. I too like the hub idea even though  it
>> means a Linux server at the repeater site. The problem with Linux at a
>> repeater site is power outrages. I work for the hosting company that has
>> allowed me to place our high powered hub in a rack (dual Intel processors,
>> quad core, 16GB RAM, RAID [ to be replaced with SSD ]) with a 100MBit pipe.
>> We  will be able to handle a lot of connections. At the repeater site we need
>> to  make sure that we at least have a UPS installed that will give the site
>> owners  generator time to come online. Otherwise Linux sucks when it
>> scrambles. It may  take hours to do a FSCK. That means a trip to the site
>> unless we add a KVM  over IP device. $$$ all the way around.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> We have three repeater sites. We have three RC-210’s. I propose adding a
>> RTCM on the 4th port of the RC-210 and then port 1 –> 2m port 2 –> 440  port
>> 3 –> 900.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Here’s the price breakdown:
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 1 PC: $300
>>  
>> 3 URI’s: $297
>>  
>> 1 APC SmartUPS UPS: $500
>>  
>> 1 KVM/IP: $305
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> ==>> $1397
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Compared to:
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 1 Arcom RC-210: $400
>>  
>> 1 RTCM: $269
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> ==>> $669
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> The difference here besides the price is that each repeater cannot be
>> individually linked via Allstar. But the RC-210 can allow all three repeaters
>> to connect to one RTCM. From what Chris Kurtis tells us the RC-210 worked out
>> fine.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> I’d love to read more ideas.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Wayne @ Node 41660
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Chris Curtis <mailto:demoman at rollanet.org>
>>  
>> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 9:26 AM
>>  
>> To: 'R. Wayne' <mailto:allstar at controlservers.net>
>>  
>> Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] Multiple Repeaters Per  Site
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> I used a port on the 210 for IRLP and then later  allstarlink.
>>   
>> Works fine.  
>>   
>> You still need a sound fob in between the PC and  the 210 though.
>>   
>> The 210 treats the fob as a radio and the fob  treats the 210 as a radio.
>>   
>> 210 port àfobß  PC
>>   
>> No problem at all.
>>   
>>  
>> 
>> Chris  
>> KB0WLF 
>>  
>>   
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> From:  app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org
>> [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces at ohnosec.org]  On Behalf Of R. Wayne
>> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 10:32  AM
>> To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>> Subject: Re:  [App_rpt-users] Multiple Repeaters Per Site
>>  
>>     
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> But what about using an external controller like a Arcom RC-210?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>>    
>>  
>> 
>> 
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-- 
keith at goobie.org
Keith Goobie
Richmond Hill, ON, CANADA

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