---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Shane Morris" <edgecomberts@gmail.com> Date: 11/11/2012 5:56 AM Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] please please help To: "Eric Guth" <eric@efratnetworks.com> Hi Eric, I understand completely - the brain drain is alive and well in Australia too, let me assure you. I am probably one of five people in my local area of 20,000 people who know what I know, and certainly the only one who uses open source solutions. I can also understand your motivation with the "distributed nodes" - I personally would love to see such a system exist. I'm going to make a suggestion for you. I know there are Real Time Linux kernels available that would give you the deterministic timing needed to operate a RTCM alike system. However getting such a kernel to run on an RPi would be an uphill battle that I don't think anyone would enjoy. There are alternatives however, such as the excellent Cubieboard product I'm planning on buying for Christmas. This board is a 1GHz processor with HDMi and SATA as well as both audio in and out and 96 I/Os. But here's the kicker (and why I'm suggesting it) - the Allwinner A10 is a completely open source chip. That means that a compilation of a RT kernel would be a trivial exercise. None of this "Oh, our boot process is proprietary and you need to use a patched kernel" stuff that Ramesh, Jim and I run into with the RPi. I personally think its a load of bollocks to tell the truth. But hey, I don't own the company, I just use their products. Plenty of the "Consume and use, and don't ask questions" going on. Eric, the best part about the board, apart from the open source thing, is price: US$49. Ain't that a beauty? So $11 more than an RPi and its much more likely to do what you want. Fair deal to me. Www.cubieboard.org should get you out of trouble - they have a page on indiegogo too, I'm planning on getting two "Rich Packs" - one for myself and one for a good friend of mine who loves open source. Eric, I hope this helps - of course the benefits of adminning a familiar system and knowing your way around the software would make your distributed node effort a piece of cake. I am, of course, available should you need me, I've always wanted to play around with embedded real time, now I might have a chance and an impetuous. :) Thanks Eric, and best of luck on your efforts! Shane. On 11/11/2012 5:29 AM, "Eric Guth" <eric@efratnetworks.com> wrote:
Dear Shane,
Thanks for your very thoughtful message. I guess that I will buy an RTCM in the near future for a mobile node. Jim tells me that I will get half way to work before a server in my car will register with the network. He is big on the RTCM, and for good reason. I was thinking of the RPi as a way to build cheaper micro nodes to distribute around Israel for those of us who want to build a statewide single channel (or channel pair) mobile network. It lends itself well for placement at our member's homes using the Maxtrac radios that we find here. I am the only one these days that knows how to fix repeaters (a sad commentary), so the ideal of distributed nodes makes an easier deployment versus finding the key or arranging for someone to meet us at the radio site.
73,
Eric 4Z5UG / WA6IGR Allstar Node: 28422 4Z5UG@guth.us Israel Direct: 077-950-9451 USA Direct: +1-720-377-3840 Skype: ericrguth -----Original Message----- From: Shane Morris [mailto:edgecomberts@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 4:34 PM To: Eric Guth Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] please please help
Hi Eric,
I can't see why not, but with the following provisos: the RPi must run an Asterisk server. So in effect, you'd need to have IAX trunks all over the place (no good using SIP, can't use a PTT signal with SIP), and of course, you'd need to have a dial plan to reflect this.
The next issue will be timing: one would need to use one of the GPIOs on the RPi as the 1PPS signal, and program the RPi such. Can it be done? Certainly.
The next issue after that is "real time" - the RTCM is a *very* basic device. Its "hard" real time, cause simply, it don't run anything else. Its designed to do one thing, and do that one thing well: turn VoIP packets into audio, and vice versa. Can an RPi do this? Yes, it could, but you'd need to be *very* deterministic in the way you go about it. Knowing my heading beating, and also the head beating of Jim and Ramesh, a Real Time Linux with deterministic properties might be a bit of a way off.
So how would we attack this? The Asterisk issues are minor: one would just need to make sure their dial plan reflects the fact they're having a server on each node. Not a biggie.
Timing is also easily solved: see this -
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/alamode-arduino-compatible-raspberry-pi-pla...
Its an expansion shield for the RPi with an Arduino chip, and shield pinout, meaning one could easily plug in a GPS shield. Serial through the Arduino to set the time (also important!) and the 1PPS on a spare GPIO into the program to determine timing for the RTCM program.
Lastly is the deal breaker: can we get a real time kernel? And thats what I'm not sure of. Can it be deterministic enough for us? Again, unsure, the RPi isn't a device designed for hard real time. You'd know as well as I do, that if you have even the slightest delay in a voting network, we're up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle, especially if the base stations transmit zones overlap, which results in interference and intermod. This is the reason I'm redesigning the RTCM myself to avoid those problems.
I would really love to see a real time kernel on the RPi, that would be the coolest...! But after the debacle I had with the kernel sources, I wouldn't hold your breath... sorry to give you that bad news.
In any case Eric, its food for thought! =)
Shane.
On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 12:59 AM, Eric Guth <eric@efratnetworks.com> wrote:
Shane,
Can you get a Raspberry PI to work like a RTCM working through a remote server. I can see using the Raspberry Pi with the URI for mobile and remote radio back to my home server.
73,
Eric 4Z5UG / WA6IGR Allstar Node: 28422 4Z5UG@guth.us Israel Direct: 077-950-9451 USA Direct: +1-720-377-3840
-----Original Message----- From: Shane Morris [mailto:edgecomberts@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:19 AM To: Eric Guth; app_rpt mailing list Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] please please help
Hi Eric,
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be smart or anything, only guide Rich in the best possible way. I've been playing with it all for years, and *I'M* still learning =) I particularly enjoyed helping to get app_rpt working on the RaspberryPi (which reminds me, I have to email Ramesh and Jim) and I learned alot, and will continue to learn.
Theres some really great people on this list, and I feel honoured to be a part of their number. Of course, thank you for accepting my inane questions too...! =D
If we ever get off our learners permit, I guess that when they stop bringing out new ideas - loving AllMon! Good work guys! The other thing is, this is a volunteer effort, and together we stand, divided we fall. I know what I'd prefer. I'm probably re-iterating old ideas, but its important to focus on why something exists sometimes.
I'm moving onto getting app_rpt working on a Cubieboard soon, when I pay indiegogo for two (one for my friend Carmel for her Christmas present), and then chan_voter. I want to get AllMon running too, I think it would be invaluable for testing and general operation of the network. If I can vote in my workshop, I'll be a happy man...! I'll keep the URI on the RaspberryPi, no need to hose that work, and in time, I'll provide my disk image for the community - I even hope to provide it back to the RPi community at large.
Of course, if I'm saying anything here that doesn't sound right, pull me up, explain to me why it is so. But I reckon, if I can get a URI working on RPi then I can get a Cubieboard to run a vote director. If I can get it all running by October next year is the challenge...! =P
Thanks for your kind words Eric, its nice to know that I've helped in some small way.
Shane.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Eric Guth <eric@efratnetworks.com> wrote:
Shane - thanks for your response to Rich. I spoke to him over the air and gave him the list when I realized that I too am still on an Allstar learner's permit.
Regards,
Eric. 4Z5UG
Eric Guth Tel: 077-950-9451 USA: 1-720-377-3840
On Nov 9, 2012, at 6:15 AM, "Shane Morris" <edgecomberts@gmail.com> wrote:
Your best bet would be to do some reading. there's plenty of Howtos out there that explain basic tasks. Linux, as you may have guessed, isn't Windows.
I know this sounds like I'm trying to fob you away, but your best tool is to READ then DO. If you are committed to running a node, and you don't hose it at least once, seriously, you're not trying hard enough :)
I can be a bit pedantic because I've been playing with Linux and Solaris since 1999, but I assure you, I started where you are too, and patience and perseverance always wins out. Before that I trained on System 6 and MSDOS. And I've been playing with computers - especially obsolete ones - since I was 8 (in 1992). You always know you've learned too much when you can fix a 20 year old computer with bubble gum and prayer :)
So, for you: Google "Linux System Administration Howto." Read it, then come back to us. Good luck and best wishes in your journey! I hope to hear you on the airwaves soon!
On 09/11/2012 3:05 PM, <kingshadow1@cox.net> wrote:
Please help me , I have been trying to load Centos for days. I don't know anything about lynix, when I type in the root password it shows no evidence of my typing. I don't know how to work this download.I have acid install instructions, but they do not help. Do I type in the password and hit enter ? I don't know what to do.I am trying to put together an allstar node. I have the usb fob, I have the radio, I
have a computer, I have a node number
and I d number, and the instructions I'm getting are not helping and nobody has been able to answer my questions. I was given this place by a friend who said the best people are here. I would really like to have an allstar node. I need someone to take me by the hand and lead me thru this thing.I will appreaciate anything someone can do to help me. Rick K F 7 T B T _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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