DMK URI COS Level / Kenwood TKR-850
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch. John
John, I sure it has the voltage but does it have enough current ? You may need to buffer it with a transistor. I would think that it does not need it. However, are you sure you logic is correct as-is or do you need to invert it? Try feeding cos line +5vdc (or ground) without the cos line and see if it triggers the system. ...mike/kb8jnm
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch. John _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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Hi John, Yes, the TKR-850 (version 2, at least) will interface perfectly with a DMK URI, no extra parts required...I've got several 750's and 850's on-line. One caveat to note is that you may wish to add a pull-down resistor on the COS signal line to keep the URI from thinking the RX is active it the URI is unplugged from the repeater or the repeater is off. 73, David KB4FXC On Sat, 9 May 2015, John wrote:
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch. John
Set the Kenwood COS o/p to active low and connect to the URI. Set the "Corfrom" to "Usbinvert" In the Usbradio or Simpleusb. files. The URI COR & PL inputs require a signal that goes to ground. It doesnt care about voltage swing. Jon VA3RQ On 5/9/2015 2:24 PM, David McGough wrote:
Hi John,
Yes, the TKR-850 (version 2, at least) will interface perfectly with a DMK URI, no extra parts required...I've got several 750's and 850's on-line.
One caveat to note is that you may wish to add a pull-down resistor on the COS signal line to keep the URI from thinking the RX is active it the URI is unplugged from the repeater or the repeater is off.
73, David KB4FXC
On Sat, 9 May 2015, John wrote:
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch. John
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Further to my previous post, the COR and PL inputs have a dc blocking diode. This prevents external DC from affecting these inputs. These inputs are internally pulled up. So any external DC will not affect the URI from detecting a change. Only grounding these pins will cause a signal change. They can either be pulled low on signal detect (active low) or pulled low with no signal and left to float when there is a signal (Active HI). If the external device sources a voltage and does not pull to far enough to ground, then it wont work. But if the input signal does pull to ground then it will work. It is not necessary for the external radio to source any voltage to interface with the URI COR or PL inputs. I regularly use NPN transistors on some radios to give me an open collector that pulls low(ground) when the COR or PL decode is active. Jon VA3RQ On 5/9/2015 3:59 PM, REDBUTTON_CTRL wrote:
Set the Kenwood COS o/p to active low and connect to the URI. Set the "Corfrom" to "Usbinvert" In the Usbradio or Simpleusb. files.
The URI COR & PL inputs require a signal that goes to ground. It doesnt care about voltage swing.
Jon VA3RQ
On 5/9/2015 2:24 PM, David McGough wrote:
Hi John,
Yes, the TKR-850 (version 2, at least) will interface perfectly with a DMK URI, no extra parts required...I've got several 750's and 850's on-line.
One caveat to note is that you may wish to add a pull-down resistor on the COS signal line to keep the URI from thinking the RX is active it the URI is unplugged from the repeater or the repeater is off.
73, David KB4FXC
On Sat, 9 May 2015, John wrote:
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch. John
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If it is positive true COS anything above +2 should assert COS - in that case you would be using usb NOT usbinvert in your config. COS is blocked by a diode so anything up to 20+ volts on a high is OK. It does have to go to a good low - 0V if possible. Obviously if it is negative true COS it would be just the opposite and using usbinvert. Go into the client - asterisk -rvvv and watch the log. You should see a hungup status on drop of signal. You can exercise this manually for testing if desired. 73 Doug WA3DSP http://www.crompton.com/hamradio From: wb5nfc@gmail.com Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 12:49:35 -0500 To: App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: [App_rpt-users] DMK URI COS Level / Kenwood TKR-850 Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch. John _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
Wow, thanks for all the replies guys!I Mike: I've played with the logic in both states just to be sure. Nada inverted or not. I'm just getting back to this project after a number of months, so I'm sort of starting all over again. Just got everything pulled out of the motorhome so I can start digging a liitle deeper. IF memory serves.... the URI acts like it's loading the circuit. When not connected to the URI, the aux output on the Kenwood switches with received signal from 0 to 5 V or 5 V to 0 depending on how it's programmed. I'll try your suggestion of applying +5 vdc or ground to the URI... Doug: No indication of change while monitoring the asterisk client. Checked to make sure I was set for repeater operation in the config files and all was well there too. David: This is the same issue you tried to help me with several months ago but I still couldn't get things going before I hit the road for the winter - even with all of the great info you provided. I reviewed your notes again before tackling it again -- including checking all my wiring for the umpteenth time. Just wasn't sure if there might be some difference between your V2's and my V1. I'm just grasping for straws at this point. Got everything off the shelves and spread out now so let the troubleshooting begin.... John On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Doug Crompton <doug@crompton.com> wrote:
If it is positive true COS anything above +2 should assert COS - in that case you would be using usb NOT usbinvert in your config. COS is blocked by a diode so anything up to 20+ volts on a high is OK. It does have to go to a good low - 0V if possible.
Obviously if it is negative true COS it would be just the opposite and using usbinvert.
Go into the client - asterisk -rvvv and watch the log. You should see a hungup status on drop of signal. You can exercise this manually for testing if desired.
*73 DougWA3DSPhttp://www.crompton.com/hamradio <http://www.crompton.com/hamradio>*
------------------------------ From: wb5nfc@gmail.com Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 12:49:35 -0500 To: App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: [App_rpt-users] DMK URI COS Level / Kenwood TKR-850
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch. John
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- John Kenney
One other comment on the TKR 750/850, these repeaters have an analog ground and a digital ground. Analog grounds are used for audio connections and the digital grounds are used for signalling like PTT COR and data. When connecting the the URI, or any repeater controller for that matter, you must connect one analog ground and one digital ground together at the URI or controller. Other wise the digital signals may not work properly. Jon VA3RQ On 5/9/2015 4:15 PM, John wrote:
Wow, thanks for all the replies guys!I
Mike: I've played with the logic in both states just to be sure. Nada inverted or not. I'm just getting back to this project after a number of months, so I'm sort of starting all over again. Just got everything pulled out of the motorhome so I can start digging a liitle deeper. IF memory serves.... the URI acts like it's loading the circuit. When not connected to the URI, the aux output on the Kenwood switches with received signal from 0 to 5 V or 5 V to 0 depending on how it's programmed. I'll try your suggestion of applying +5 vdc or ground to the URI...
Doug: No indication of change while monitoring the asterisk client. Checked to make sure I was set for repeater operation in the config files and all was well there too.
David: This is the same issue you tried to help me with several months ago but I still couldn't get things going before I hit the road for the winter - even with all of the great info you provided. I reviewed your notes again before tackling it again -- including checking all my wiring for the umpteenth time. Just wasn't sure if there might be some difference between your V2's and my V1. I'm just grasping for straws at this point.
Got everything off the shelves and spread out now so let the troubleshooting begin....
John
On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Doug Crompton <doug@crompton.com <mailto:doug@crompton.com>> wrote:
If it is positive true COS anything above +2 should assert COS - in that case you would be using usb NOT usbinvert in your config. COS is blocked by a diode so anything up to 20+ volts on a high is OK. It does have to go to a good low - 0V if possible.
Obviously if it is negative true COS it would be just the opposite and using usbinvert.
Go into the client - asterisk -rvvv and watch the log. You should see a hungup status on drop of signal. You can exercise this manually for testing if desired.
*73 Doug WA3DSP http://www.crompton.com/hamradio*
------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: wb5nfc@gmail.com <mailto:wb5nfc@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 12:49:35 -0500 To: App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> Subject: [App_rpt-users] DMK URI COS Level / Kenwood TKR-850
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch. John
_______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
-- John Kenney
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On 5/9/2015 1:49 PM, John wrote:
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch.
All FOB's, including the URI, but the exception of a RIM, require a logic signal capable of sinking to near ground potential on the COS and CTCSS inputs (active low). No matter if you choose a upright logic or inverted (in software) the hardware needs to provide a signal that goes nearly to ground. In other words, it needs to sink to ground potential. Many radios provide a voltage when the logic state is valid (active high), these don't interface to a FOB or URI well. A pull-down resistor can help in these situations, but it's best to use the right type of logic circuitry to feed these logic inputs. Since the CM119 IC is internally pulled up, changing its logic state requires a ground. This was originally done by mechanical switches in a FOB, but must now be done with transistors or whatever logic is available from the radio. Protection diodes on these inputs help to complicate the situation because they have a voltage drop. The hardware inputs of the CM119 require that the voltage drop to about 1V or less to become valid. While Schottky diodes keep this to a minimum (because their voltage drop is about 2/3 that of a silicon diode), you still need a solid pull to ground logic signal for a valid COS or CTCSS signal for a URI or simple FOB. Some radios are difficult to properly interface the COS and CTCSS logic to a FOB or URI. I have a board that I designed just for the occasion: http://www.repeater-builder.com/w3kkc/products/squelch/sc50.html My suggestion is to use a NPN transistor or FET to invert the active high TKR-850 logic for a solid pull to ground. A 2N2222 or 2N7000 can work well. Kevin
Hi Guys, Kevin is correct about the URI's--they can be a bit ticklish when used in an active-low configuration; I have personally experienced these issues! .....And, that's why I recommended a COS active-high configuration, including a COS pull-down resistor (any convenient value from 10K to 27K or so should be fine) to insure COS turns off. I can post a schematic if needed, but, the COS wiring is simple: COS/TOR output from the TKR repeater goes to pin 8 on the URI and a pull-down resistor goes from URI pin 8 to ground. Then, set the TKR for COS-high signaling, and set carrierfrom=usb in the AllStar config file (usbradio.conf or simpleusb.conf). This combination works 100% on all eight version 2 TKR-750/850 I've got installed currently. I fully expect it'll work properly on version 1 hardware, too--I just haven't personally tried it. 73, David KB4FXC On Sat, 9 May 2015, Kevin Custer wrote:
On 5/9/2015 1:49 PM, John wrote:
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch.
All FOB's, including the URI, but the exception of a RIM, require a logic signal capable of sinking to near ground potential on the COS and CTCSS inputs (active low). No matter if you choose a upright logic or inverted (in software) the hardware needs to provide a signal that goes nearly to ground. In other words, it needs to sink to ground potential. Many radios provide a voltage when the logic state is valid (active high), these don't interface to a FOB or URI well. A pull-down resistor can help in these situations, but it's best to use the right type of logic circuitry to feed these logic inputs.
Since the CM119 IC is internally pulled up, changing its logic state requires a ground. This was originally done by mechanical switches in a FOB, but must now be done with transistors or whatever logic is available from the radio. Protection diodes on these inputs help to complicate the situation because they have a voltage drop. The hardware inputs of the CM119 require that the voltage drop to about 1V or less to become valid. While Schottky diodes keep this to a minimum (because their voltage drop is about 2/3 that of a silicon diode), you still need a solid pull to ground logic signal for a valid COS or CTCSS signal for a URI or simple FOB.
Some radios are difficult to properly interface the COS and CTCSS logic to a FOB or URI. I have a board that I designed just for the occasion: http://www.repeater-builder.com/w3kkc/products/squelch/sc50.html
My suggestion is to use a NPN transistor or FET to invert the active high TKR-850 logic for a solid pull to ground. A 2N2222 or 2N7000 can work well.
Kevin
I'm blown away. It's going to take awhile for me to digest all of this great information! One thing for sure, it's not as easy as I thought: there are LOTS of different ways to accomplish the same goal. Many thanks to each of you for your willingness to share your knowledge. John On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 12:49 PM, John <wb5nfc@gmail.com> wrote:
Is the 0-5 Volt COS swing on a Kenwood TKR-850 sufficient to switch the COS on a DMK URI? Can't seem to get my system to repeat. I'm out in the 'boondocks' with very few parts and a long way from a Radio Shack. Just hoping I don't need to buffer the COS somehow to get it to switch. John
-- John Kenney
participants (6)
-
David McGough -
Doug Crompton -
John -
Kevin Custer -
mike＠midnighteng.com -
REDBUTTON_CTRL