I’m looking at adding Allstar to my two repeaters, and recently joined this list to learn more about the technology. I don’t understand the internal struggles here, since this is all new to me. So far, I’ve seen a lot of unpleasantness. This looks like an environment which I’m probably best to steer clear of, until things settle out. Steve N7TX

On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:38, Mike Besemer <mwbesemer@cox.net> wrote:

Whatever floats your boat, Bryan. I'm not a software developer, but I'm also not a jerk. You are, in my opinion, more of the latter than you are the former.

If you don't like me, kick my nodes off your servers. I don't care anymore. ASL is not worth putting up with your prima-donna attitude. You guys are a running joke in much of the rest of the ham radio community; too bad it's not funny to those of us stuck in the middle. If you're worried about the demise of ham radio, try looking in the mirror...and maybe go to confession.

I've never done anything to you except disagree with you and you've treated me like crap here and elsewhere. At this point, whether you are right or wrong is immaterial. You can't go around abusing people just because they disagree with you and expect people to put up with it. I've tried to play nice in your presence but it has done no good. I've tried to distance myself from you, but you make it a point to regularly come up on the net to stir the pot. It has gotten old; all the end users want is a product the works and to not have to listen to this continuous battle.

I'll save you the trouble of looking in my nodes numbers; they are 48166, 48656, and 48969. If you're feeling froggy, go ahead and block them.

As for my moral compass, it served me well for the past 37 years of service to this country and through more wars than I can count. Maybe you too should try doing something worth while to mankind and quit stroking your... ego all the time.

As an end user, I have no more responsibility to protect 'your' product than I would to protect Microsoft. If 'you' aren't man enough for that task, maybe 'you' should step aside and find someone who is.

WM4B

...

On Oct 24, 2018 3:46 PM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:

...

On 10/24/18 1:27 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B wrote: Amen! The bickering is pointless and totally unproductive. Grow up!

The most unqualified people are telling the most qualified to shut up. You are the one who needs to grow a moral compass and quit enabling bad behavior.

-- Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

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On 10/24/18 4:38 PM, Mike Besemer wrote:

As for my moral compass, it served me well for the past 37 years of service to this country and through more wars than I can count. Maybe you too should try doing something worth while to mankind and quit stroking your... ego all the time.

You think waging war is contributing to man kind? How sick. -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net

On 10/24/18 6:43 PM, Mike Besemer wrote:

Just because you don't have the balls to man up and put on a uniform to defend the country doesn't make those of us who do warmongers. We sacrifice freely so you can sit at home on your fat butt, eat Cheetos and drink French piss water, all while pretending to be something that you are not; human. Your skills as a computer geek mean nothing; those who sacrifice for those who they will never meet are the heart of this nation.

Can you explain how any of this makes you an authority deserving any respect of your opinion on free software, or radio in general? -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net

It doesn't. You brought it up, not me. In fact, I think I made it abundantly clear that I don't seek your respect; hell, I'd probably puke if you gave it to me. My initial email was that I wished that the opposing powers would make nice or at least shut the hell up on the email list. Your reply was that I was totally unqualified to speak about the legality of the software. Problem is, I NEVER addressed who is right and who is wrong; I only expressed an opinion that you guys need to play nice or fight it out amongst yourselves and leave the rest of us out of it; we don't have a dog in the fight. Maybe if you did something to convince us mere mortals that you were right, instead of crapping on us all the time, we'd fall in behind you. Frankly, most of us have no idea what the hell you're complaining about and your attitude doesn't do anything to motivate us to figure it out. Maybe try a little honey instead of the load of shit you've been spewing. WM4B -----Original Message----- From: App_rpt-users [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@lists.allstarlink.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Fields Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 6:50 PM To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 116, Issue 13 On 10/24/18 6:43 PM, Mike Besemer wrote:

Just because you don't have the balls to man up and put on a uniform to defend the country doesn't make those of us who do warmongers. We sacrifice freely so you can sit at home on your fat butt, eat Cheetos and drink French piss water, all while pretending to be something that you are not; human. Your skills as a computer geek mean nothing; those who sacrifice for those who they will never meet are the heart of this nation.

Can you explain how any of this makes you an authority deserving any respect of your opinion on free software, or radio in general? -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

On 10/24/2018 7:19 PM, Mike Besemer wrote:

Frankly, most of us have no idea what the hell you're complaining about and your attitude doesn't do anything to motivate us to figure it out.

AllStarLink, Inc. is an assembly of people selected to carry out the project and vision of Jim Dixon (SK).  Jim is now passed on and was the inventor of AllStar Link.  He is also responsible for many aspects of Asterisk and mainly wrote the app_rpt software application that makes Asterisk capable of being a full blown repeater controller, capable of several ports per computer host. AllStar has always been an open source project, as Jim Dixon had no interest in selling it outright, or as a paid application.  To say the very least, Jim Dixon was all about open source.  The AllStar project is protected by GPL, <https://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/1532.html> a license that's visible when viewing the Source Code of AllStarLink and every derivative of it. The folks at AllStarLink put a lot of time, effort, and money into continuing the AllStar Link project.  They are fully responsible for vetting new members (making sure they a licensed amateur radio operators), issuing node numbers, running servers to allow connections between its members, and a website to make it all happen.  AllStarLink provides free support via several contact methods.   AllStarLink is (mainly) funded by several individuals who regularly donate to it.  In other words, it's generally free to the users.  This doesn't mean it's free to maintain.  There are real monthly costs associated with running it.  I've personally carried the monthly fees myself.  I'm not mentioning this for any recognition - I'm simply trying to let folks know it's not free to make this project available to the amateur public. Jim Dixon was a brilliant man, but not a easy one to work with.  I had a few uncomfortable conversations with Jim myself.  But, you soon learned that it was what it was, and you played as he wanted. The folks at HamVoIP had several ideas of their own and were mostly met with resistance from Jim.  That led to Jim making the statement that the folks at HamVoIP should fork the project, and do as they please.  That's exactly what happened, but there's a catch.... If you fork a project protected by the GPL, you must do one of two things: 1 - Use it for your own purposes and NOT distribute or support it publicly. 2 - Comply with the GPL and release your changes to the public. If (and only if) you do the latter, are you allowed to redistribute your version of the work.  What does this mean? It's perfectly legal to fork a Linux project, but, if you are going to redistribute a derivative to the general public, you MUST release the source code. NO ONE would have an issue with the HamVoIP project if they simply complied, and released the source.   Wouldn't that be the "right" thing to do? HamVoIP does not directly support the project financially, or otherwise.  They are not responsible for the membership.  In recent months, they are quick to take credit for all of AllStar, but they don't really have much to do with it.  They even go on to make a very negative public perception of all of the folks at AllStarLink. For example, just go look at their home page and read the section on "August 15, 2018".  While the transition of making the server stack more reliable and diverse didn't go exactly as planned, we're not a bunch of buffoons either.  Personally, attacks like this hurt the core of what we're trying to do - continue with a great project. They hurt me and the rest of the team personally - but we're supposed to pretend they don't exist.  Bryan has more time (and possibly more money) in the AllStar project than anyone else since Jim's passing.  Maybe now you understand his position more clearly. AllStarLink is responsible for the most of it, but HamVoIP has led people to believe THEY are AllStar, but they're not.  And - now you know why. Kevin Custer W3KKC Board Member AllStarLink, Inc.

Kevin, I would like to thank you for your thoughtful and correct response. I have been around Allstarlink since the early days. I was a close friend to Jim Dixon. I personally know the full story. Your summary below is factual and true. I appreciate your detailed explanation to the AllstarLink community. Everyone in the AllstarLink community deserves the true story of what has actually happened and what is actually happening so that they can be informed about actual facts and not fiction. Hopefully with your summary and explanation all reading posts on this list can understand that the folks at AllstarLink, Inc. are only trying to help the ham community and the Allstarlink cause. AllstarLink, Inc. has a bunch of great people that silently work behind the scenes, they donate personal time, money and talents for the cause. All the while, the "Allstarlink technology just magically keeps working for the AllstarLink users" . Those same folks working behind the scenes for AllstarLink, Inc. can only take so many of the lies, miss representations, and half truths told from this other group (mainly two individuals), before the AllstarLink, Inc. guys feel the need to set the record straight. Some of you on the list have made known your displeasure of all these posts regarding politics via this email list. If it really bothers you, please, please, please just hit the delete button and move on to the next email. Sometimes the record needs to be set straight. Yes this list is about learning and helping others. For the new folks on here, do not hesitate to ask questions on the list. There are many folks here that will help out. 73 Marshall - ke6pcv From: App_rpt-users [mailto:app_rpt-users-bounces@lists.allstarlink.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 7:03 PM To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 116, Issue 13 On 10/24/2018 7:19 PM, Mike Besemer wrote: Frankly, most of us have no idea what the hell you're complaining about and your attitude doesn't do anything to motivate us to figure it out. AllStarLink, Inc. is an assembly of people selected to carry out the project and vision of Jim Dixon (SK). Jim is now passed on and was the inventor of AllStar Link. He is also responsible for many aspects of Asterisk and mainly wrote the app_rpt software application that makes Asterisk capable of being a full blown repeater controller, capable of several ports per computer host. AllStar has always been an open source project, as Jim Dixon had no interest in selling it outright, or as a paid application. To say the very least, Jim Dixon was all about open source. The AllStar project is protected by GPL, <https://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/1532.html> a license that's visible when viewing the Source Code of AllStarLink and every derivative of it. The folks at AllStarLink put a lot of time, effort, and money into continuing the AllStar Link project. They are fully responsible for vetting new members (making sure they a licensed amateur radio operators), issuing node numbers, running servers to allow connections between its members, and a website to make it all happen. AllStarLink provides free support via several contact methods. AllStarLink is (mainly) funded by several individuals who regularly donate to it. In other words, it's generally free to the users. This doesn't mean it's free to maintain. There are real monthly costs associated with running it. I've personally carried the monthly fees myself. I'm not mentioning this for any recognition - I'm simply trying to let folks know it's not free to make this project available to the amateur public. Jim Dixon was a brilliant man, but not a easy one to work with. I had a few uncomfortable conversations with Jim myself. But, you soon learned that it was what it was, and you played as he wanted. The folks at HamVoIP had several ideas of their own and were mostly met with resistance from Jim. That led to Jim making the statement that the folks at HamVoIP should fork the project, and do as they please. That's exactly what happened, but there's a catch.... If you fork a project protected by the GPL, you must do one of two things: 1 - Use it for your own purposes and NOT distribute or support it publicly. 2 - Comply with the GPL and release your changes to the public. If (and only if) you do the latter, are you allowed to redistribute your version of the work. What does this mean? It's perfectly legal to fork a Linux project, but, if you are going to redistribute a derivative to the general public, you MUST release the source code. NO ONE would have an issue with the HamVoIP project if they simply complied, and released the source. Wouldn't that be the "right" thing to do? HamVoIP does not directly support the project financially, or otherwise. They are not responsible for the membership. In recent months, they are quick to take credit for all of AllStar, but they don't really have much to do with it. They even go on to make a very negative public perception of all of the folks at AllStarLink. For example, just go look at their home page and read the section on "August 15, 2018". While the transition of making the server stack more reliable and diverse didn't go exactly as planned, we're not a bunch of buffoons either. Personally, attacks like this hurt the core of what we're trying to do - continue with a great project. They hurt me and the rest of the team personally - but we're supposed to pretend they don't exist. Bryan has more time (and possibly more money) in the AllStar project than anyone else since Jim's passing. Maybe now you understand his position more clearly. AllStarLink is responsible for the most of it, but HamVoIP has led people to believe THEY are AllStar, but they're not. And - now you know why. Kevin Custer W3KKC Board Member AllStarLink, Inc.