Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
I am curious. Has the FCC ever issued a fine or NAL to any GMRS operator for linking a repeater?? I tried searching for GMRS violations once on the EB portal and found little in the way of GMRS violations. On 2/12/2019 9:45 PM, John Heron wrote:
Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only thing that did change.
If any part of a linked network touches a telco it’s in violation.
All the best, John Heron 561-334-6494 jh0932@gmail.com <mailto:jh0932@gmail.com>
On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv@gmail.com <mailto:kc2irv@gmail.com>> wrote:
That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point since that is not regulated.
On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 <mitchmitchell1616@gmail.com <mailto:mitchmitchell1616@gmail.com> wrote:
From what I remember, they didn't want you bypassing the long distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end. Once IP network is involved, the underlying physical network architecture isn't relevant. Lots of outdated rules still on the books.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: John Heron <jh0932@gmail.com <mailto:jh0932@gmail.com>> Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org <mailto:app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org>> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
If it’s hooked to a telco it’s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal.
All the best, John Heron 561-334-6494 jh0932@gmail.com <mailto:jh0932@gmail.com>
> On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray@mminternet.com <mailto:fwbray@mminternet.com> wrote: > > Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether § 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver. It didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio. > > The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement them. If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally. However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur radio systems. > > I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet linked system if they thought it through. Unless you are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a calamity. > > KE6CD > > > > > > >> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote: >> >> Here is a MAJOR problem.... >> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier >> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend >> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other >> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully >> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for >> activity BEFORE keying up! >> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine >> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter. >> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's >> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to >> disagree....but thats the way it is. > > > _______________________________________________ > App_rpt-users mailing list > App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> > http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" > You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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I searched fairly extensively through NALs for other reasons and I was struck by how hard individuals had to work to get fined by the FCC. Frankly I would not have the stamina. I don’t specifically remember seeing anything like this but I was looking for other things at the time. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Joe Leikhim Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 9:07 PM To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP I am curious. Has the FCC ever issued a fine or NAL to any GMRS operator for linking a repeater?? I tried searching for GMRS violations once on the EB portal and found little in the way of GMRS violations. On 2/12/2019 9:45 PM, John Heron wrote: Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only thing that did change. If any part of a linked network touches a telco it’s in violation. All the best, John Heron 561-334-6494 jh0932@gmail.com On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv@gmail.com> wrote: That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point since that is not regulated. On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 <mitchmitchell1616@gmail.com wrote:
From what I remember, they didn't want you bypassing the long distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end. Once IP network is involved, the underlying physical network architecture isn't relevant. Lots of outdated rules still on the books.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: John Heron <jh0932@gmail.com> Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP If it’s hooked to a telco it’s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal. All the best, John Heron 561-334-6494 jh0932@gmail.com
On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray@mminternet.com wrote:
Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether § 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver. It didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio.
The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement them. If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally. However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur radio systems.
I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet linked system if they thought it through. Unless you are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a calamity.
KE6CD
On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote:
Here is a MAJOR problem.... "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for activity BEFORE keying up! All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter. Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to disagree....but thats the way it is.
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It does seem the most stubborn bunch get busted. They get a nice friendly warning and then go bigger. The FCC does not like being lied to. That will get you NAL'd right away. I saw a beat up van in traffic in my neighborhood here in Central Florida. It caught my eye for all the various stickers on it. So I google it and it is owned by a Haitian businessman in south Florida who was busted repeatedly for running a quasi commercial pirate station. What he was doing up here I have no idea, probably there is another illegal station here. I need to tune in. When I lived in Miami I had a Haitian guy calling me all the time wanting to build a legal LPFM station near the Miami Airport. I did a pro bono study for him and found only a low power slot in Homestead ideal for Mexican demographic, but not in right place for the Haitians. Still he called all the time, somebody told him I could work magic or something. Nice, but no. On 2/12/2019 10:09 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote:
I searched fairly extensively through NALs for other reasons and I was struck by how hard individuals had to work to get fined by the FCC. Frankly I would not have the stamina. I don’t specifically remember seeing anything like this but I was looking for other things at the time.
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
*From: *Joe Leikhim <mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 12, 2019 9:07 PM *To: *Users of Asterisk app_rpt <mailto:app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> *Subject: *Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
I am curious. Has the FCC ever issued a fine or NAL to any GMRS operator for linking a repeater?? I tried searching for GMRS violations once on the EB portal and found little in the way of GMRS violations.
On 2/12/2019 9:45 PM, John Heron wrote:
Wrong look again. FCC is clear on that. Nothing changed. Peoples interpretation of what they would like to hear and see is the only thing that did change.
If any part of a linked network touches a telco it’s in violation.
All the best, John Heron
561-334-6494
jh0932@gmail.com <mailto:jh0932@gmail.com>
On Feb 12, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv@gmail.com <mailto:kc2irv@gmail.com>> wrote:
That and if its cable internet the Telco argument is a moot point since that is not regulated.
On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 6:52 PM mitchmitchell1616 <mitchmitchell1616@gmail.com <mailto:mitchmitchell1616@gmail.com> wrote:
From what I remember, they didn't want you bypassing the long distance carriers by putting telephone calls over the radio connecting a local call to RF and terminating to another local call on the far end. Once IP network is involved, the underlying physical network architecture isn't relevant. Lots of outdated rules still on the books.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: John Heron <jh0932@gmail.com <mailto:jh0932@gmail.com>>
Date: 2/12/19 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: Users of Asterisk app_rpt <app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org <mailto:app_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org>>
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] GMRS linked Repeater network using HAMVoIP
If it’s hooked to a telco it’s illegal. If you have DSL or landline or any part of the system touches a telco then the whole system is deemed illegal.
All the best, John Heron 561-334-6494 jh0932@gmail.com <mailto:jh0932@gmail.com>
> On Feb 11, 2019, at 5:29 PM, fwbray@mminternet.com <mailto:fwbray@mminternet.com> wrote: > > Just to clarify, my comments only had to do with whether § 95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of any audio received via "wireline" from a remote source, such as a voting receiver. It didn't concern the wisdom or other issues that impact the legality of linking or whether one can set up a node where the transmitter is keyed remotely over the same "wireline" link that carries the audio. > > The concerns Kirk expressed are legitimate. While there are technical ways of dealing with some of them -- such as lock-out receivers -- many people who set up links might not implement them. If one wants to set up a linked system, one should take all necessary steps to make sure that it operates legally. However, with any repeater, there's no guarantee that all repeater users will be able to hear all local users in the coverage area who might be using low power simplex. Similar issues exist with amateur radio systems. > > I'm not sure that "Prepers" etc., would want to depend upon an Internet linked system if they thought it through. Unless you are using independent RF links under your own control, VoIP isn't a very robust system during a calamity. > > KE6CD > > > > > > >> On 2019-02-11 12:31, Kirk Just Kirk wrote: >> >> Here is a MAJOR problem.... >> "GMRS" is a SHARED channel.Each station is to LISTEN in carrier >> squelch before transmitting. Since this transmission does not extend >> over the VoIP circuit, distant stations can transmit on top of other >> local stations, not knowing they are on the channel.To be fully >> compliant, each GMRS node would have to listen on the channel for >> activity BEFORE keying up! >> All it would take is a written complaint against a linked GMRS machine >> to result in a violation, a NAL and a cease and desist letter. >> Inn reality, GMRS does not need distant linking to fulfill it's >> purpose. I know the "Preppers" and "Save the world" types are going to >> disagree....but thats the way it is. > > > _______________________________________________ > App_rpt-users mailing list > App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> > http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" > You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org> http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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participants (2)
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Joe Leikhim -
Mitch Mitchell