"When I set my repeater up I used the automated method with a calibrated service monitor. I noticed it called for 3 kHz of audio. Finally got the repeater on the air and the audio is a little soft compared what I'm used to. I know I can adjust it but I assume this is done for a reason to keep all of the repeaters sounding close to each other. Any thoughts?" The calibration routine gives you a test audio level that corresponds to 3 kHz deviation. Full scale deviation will be 5 kHz. The lower level is used (I imagine) to avoid running up against any limiter effect during that calibration step. If you really need more deviation then adjust for more than 3 at that step in the procedure. Of course, then you will get more than 5 on peaks. This is the case when you are feeding the audio right into the modulator stage. If you are using "mic audio" then the limiter built into in your transmit radio will be affecting the deviation of the transmitted audio. You need to find and adjust that. Or inject the audio in a different place where the radio's limiter does not take effect. 73/GL Ken KE2N
The audio set up procedure has you calibrate the RX level so that every node across the entire Allstar network produces the same level audio for 3kHz dev. This is the reason Allstar audio levels do not vary all over the road like some other VoIP networks. For this reason it’s best to not ’tweak’ the RX level away from the recommended setup. If after you have your RX and TX levels set per procedure, you still feel the TX it too low, then ‘tweak’ your TX side. But please don’t mess with the RX as that can impact the overall excellent performance of the Allstar network. One thing to mention here is preemphasis and deemphasis. That’s a whole other topic, a complex topic. Just sure you understand the issue and have both of those correct or you may be thinking you have a level problem when what you actually have is a frequency response problem. -- Tim WD6AWP
On Aug 29, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Ken <ke2n@cs.com> wrote:
"When I set my repeater up I used the automated method with a calibrated service monitor. I noticed it called for 3 kHz of audio. Finally got the repeater on the air and the audio is a little soft compared what I'm used to. I know I can adjust it but I assume this is done for a reason to keep all of the repeaters sounding close to each other. Any thoughts?"
The calibration routine gives you a test audio level that corresponds to 3 kHz deviation. Full scale deviation will be 5 kHz. The lower level is used (I imagine) to avoid running up against any limiter effect during that calibration step.
If you really need more deviation then adjust for more than 3 at that step in the procedure. Of course, then you will get more than 5 on peaks. This is the case when you are feeding the audio right into the modulator stage.
If you are using "mic audio" then the limiter built into in your transmit radio will be affecting the deviation of the transmitted audio. You need to find and adjust that. Or inject the audio in a different place where the radio's limiter does not take effect.
73/GL Ken KE2N
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Well I think I figured out the problem, but I won't get to investigate it until next week. I forgot I'm feeding into the mic hi terminal on the back of the mastr ii. I'm pretty sure that's the local mic. So I either need to check the adjustment of feed audio into somewhere else in the mastr ii. It's funny I can make the repeater sound great locally. Add audio from the network and it's over driven. If I make the audio sound good on the network audio my repeater is like a whisper locally. So that might explain why I need to make an adjustment at the station.
Ar you sure you have the correct duplex= in rpt.conf for your setup? See: http://ohnosec.org/drupal/node/84 <http://ohnosec.org/drupal/node/84> -- Tim WD6AWP
On Aug 29, 2014, at 4:45 PM, Robert Newberry <N1XBM@amsat.org> wrote:
Well I think I figured out the problem, but I won't get to investigate it until next week. I forgot I'm feeding into the mic hi terminal on the back of the mastr ii. I'm pretty sure that's the local mic. So I either need to check the adjustment of feed audio into somewhere else in the mastr ii.
It's funny I can make the repeater sound great locally. Add audio from the network and it's over driven. If I make the audio sound good on the network audio my repeater is like a whisper locally. So that might explain why I need to make an adjustment at the station.
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I have found a good way to check levels is with the iaxrpt level meter. Going past full scale definitely sends you into digital clipping. About 90% of fullscale max is a good level. This is also a good way to compare levels. You will find that human speech varies all over the place and someone that might appear low in level is actually quite high on the scale. You often perceive the levels to be different based on how you hear them. Since everyone hears it differently and we are dealing with all different kinds of reproducing devices it is really hard to get it to sound the same on all signals even though a level meter shows it to be the same. People also have a tendency to not be consistent in mouth to microphone distance. You need to set it up the way you would naturally talk. I have seen handhelds with noise canceling mics that have virtually no audio 3-4 inches away. Another factor is PL level. You should probably always have the PLfilter ON. I have seen PL levels that are almost equal to voice levels. This can really screw things up. You often do not hear this on a handheld as the speaker does not reproduce levels below 300hz and if you are using PL on your end the RX has its own filter. Listening on a computer with iaxrpt is another story. You will see rogue PL levels and definitely hear them! Also if you are using a standard radio and interface the levels are almost always the same. For instance the Alinco 2, 1 1/4, 3/4 meter radios with the URI are 750 on RX and 500 on TX consistently. I have setup 8-10 radios with those values. 73 Doug WA3DSP http://www.crompton.com/hamradio From: tim.sawyer@mac.com Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 16:49:17 -0700 To: N1XBM@amsat.org CC: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio level Ar you sure you have the correct duplex= in rpt.conf for your setup? See: http://ohnosec.org/drupal/node/84 --Tim WD6AWP On Aug 29, 2014, at 4:45 PM, Robert Newberry <N1XBM@amsat.org> wrote:Well I think I figured out the problem, but I won't get to investigate it until next week. I forgot I'm feeding into the mic hi terminal on the back of the mastr ii. I'm pretty sure that's the local mic. So I either need to check the adjustment of feed audio into somewhere else in the mastr ii.It's funny I can make the repeater sound great locally. Add audio from the network and it's over driven. If I make the audio sound good on the network audio my repeater is like a whisper locally. So that might explain why I need to make an adjustment at the station. _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
I wouldn't use the mic input on the M2 backplane. Using a URI, I run it through the op amp in the URI, and then directly to the exciter audio input. On the direct FM exciter (the so called PLL exciter) I've measured the CG input is dead flat from 50 cycles or so to at least 8KC. No pre-emphasis at all. This is where they injected the EDACS voice data. A perfect place to inject TX audio. As to levels...... It's generally been my habit, from my two way radio service days, to set the exciter to hard limit everything at 5 KC. Then set the transfer audio so that a signal on the input modulated, to 3 KC modulates the transmitter to 4 KC. Takes advantage of the limiter to make up a bit of mod density. With Allstar do this with the txvoice set command. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity and typing errors.
----- Original Message ----- From: Robert A. Poff To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio level I wouldn't use the mic input on the M2 backplane. Using a URI, I run it through the op amp in the URI, and then directly to the exciter audio input. On the direct FM exciter (the so called PLL exciter) I've measured the CG input is dead flat from 50 cycles or so to at least 8KC. No pre-emphasis at all. This is where they injected the EDACS voice data. A perfect place to inject TX audio. Just remember to set the URI to TXPRELIM=YES. I don't think SIMPLEUSB will do that will it? Don't you have to use USBRADIO to do that? As to levels...... It's generally been my habit, from my two way radio service days, to set the exciter to hard limit everything at 5 KC. Then set the transfer audio so that a signal on the input modulated, to 3 KC modulates the transmitter to 4 KC. Takes advantage of the limiter to make up a bit of mod density. With Allstar do this with the txvoice set command. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity and typing errors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ App_rpt-users mailing list App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button" You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10338 (20140829) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10338 (20140829) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
Yes, usbradio. On August 29, 2014 10:49:11 PM EDT, KJ6KO <kj6ko@innercite.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: Robert A. Poff To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio level
I wouldn't use the mic input on the M2 backplane.
Using a URI, I run it through the op amp in the URI, and then directly to the exciter audio input.
On the direct FM exciter (the so called PLL exciter) I've measured the CG input is dead flat from 50 cycles or so to at least 8KC. No pre-emphasis at all. This is where they injected the EDACS voice data. A perfect place to inject TX audio. Just remember to set the URI to TXPRELIM=YES. I don't think SIMPLEUSB will do that will it? Don't you have to use USBRADIO to do that?
As to levels...... It's generally been my habit, from my two way radio service days, to set the exciter to hard limit everything at 5 KC. Then set the transfer audio so that a signal on the input modulated, to 3 KC modulates the transmitter to 4 KC. Takes advantage of the limiter to make up a bit of mod density. With Allstar do this with the txvoice set command.
-- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity and typing errors.
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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participants (6)
-
Doug Crompton -
Ken -
KJ6KO -
Robert A. Poff -
Robert Newberry -
Tim Sawyer