[App_rpt-users] App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 88, Issue 17

Jeff Carrier k0jsc.jeff at gmail.com
Mon Jun 6 22:02:23 UTC 2016 

Sam,

I'm not injecting 9.6 MHz into the RTCM.  At some point I'd like to give
that a whirl but I'd need another device to take the 10 MHz and change it
to 9.6.  That's another device that could fail on a mountain top.  One of
my sites still isn't accessible and take 6 hours round trip in good
weather.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Sam Skolfield <kj6qfs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jeff, are you using the RTCMs internal crystal or are you injecting an
> external GPSDO derived 9.6MHz?
>
> On Monday, June 6, 2016, Jeff Carrier <k0jsc.jeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Trust me, a GPS-discipline OCXO isn't enough in your overlap areas.
>> Mine have 50+ ,miles between overlap zones (transmitters are 100+ miles
>> apart) and you'll still hear garbled signals in the overlap.
>>
>> Keep in mind, public safety spends tens even hundreds of thousands of
>> dollars to do this very same thing!
>>
>> Am I saying don't try it.  Not even a little!  Experiment and have fun!
>> I'm just sharing my own experiences.
>>
>> I had the rare opportunity to speak with Jim on the phone a while back
>> and this came up.  If I could only remember, comprehend and apply even 25%
>> of what we talked about I'd be light years ahead!
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:23 AM, <app_rpt-users-request at ohnosec.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Send App_rpt-users mailing list submissions to
>>>         app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>         http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
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>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (David McGough)
>>>    2. Current signal strength (Skyler F)
>>>    3. Re: App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16 (Jeff Carrier)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 12:06:57 -0400 (EDT)
>>> From: David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
>>> To: App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
>>> Message-ID:
>>>         <Pine.LNX.4.44.1606061158330.10347-100000 at goliath.inttek.net>
>>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>>>
>>>
>>> If you GPS-discipline that OCXO, I think it would be more than adequate.
>>> Since you've already got the 1 PPS GPS signal, all that should be needed
>>> in addition to the OCXO/Si5351 is a little $3 Arduino board (like:
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131702108124 ) to program the desired output
>>> frequency(s) and perform compensation.
>>>
>>> $16 for an OCXO ---NICE! ...The whole project maybe $25!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:
>>>
>>> > I mentioned this to someone else, QRP Labs has a kit that creates a
>>> OCXO
>>> > around the Si5351 chip. here is the link:
>>> >
>>> > http://www.qrp-labs.com/ocxokit.html
>>> >
>>> > If you couple this with another kit of theirs you can program it it any
>>> > frequency you want. My only thought is would it be accurate/stable
>>> enough.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.qrp-labs.com/progrock.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > <
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
>>> >
>>> > Virus-free.
>>> > www.avast.com
>>> > <
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
>>> >
>>> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 11:36 AM, David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > Hi Joe,
>>> > >
>>> > > While on the subject of the Si5351 chips, the application of
>>> converting
>>> > > one reference clock to a secondary frequency is what they were
>>> designed
>>> > > for. So, since you've already got a GPS reference, this -might- be an
>>> > > inexpensive starting point...For this application, you obviously
>>> won't
>>> > > need all the bells and whistles presented in this article! See:
>>> > >
>>> > > http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf
>>> > > http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus
>>> > >
>>> > > Note that I would replace the Si5351 25MHz reference with a decent
>>> TCXO
>>> > > (available on ebay, etc.)....Note that I haven't used the Si5351
>>> with an
>>> > > RTCM, there may be simpler/better ways???
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > 73, David KB4FXC
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properly with
>>> the
>>> > > RTCM
>>> > > > > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a device
>>> available
>>> > > to
>>> > > > > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from the
>>> GPSDO or
>>> > > does
>>> > > > > anyone have a schematic available so that I can build them
>>> myself?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > <
>>> > >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Virus-free.
>>> > > > www.avast.com
>>> > > > <
>>> > >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
>>> > > >
>>> > > > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > App_rpt-users mailing list
>>> > > App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> > > http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>> > >
>>> > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit
>>> > > http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and
>>> scroll down
>>> > > to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the
>>> > > "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
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>>> > > confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a
>>> message to
>>> > > the list detailing the problem.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:23:34 -0600
>>> From: Skyler F <electricity440 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org" <app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
>>> Subject: [App_rpt-users] Current signal strength
>>> Message-ID:
>>>         <
>>> CAJNyT0-e-NbcP-JQpf83yeAWJ0RE2CuZ0H69B3ivEd2Xbm4x1w at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> So I just had this idea to analyze 2 meter band openings, find a weak
>>> 162MHz weather station and have a dummy app_rpt node Receive that signal.
>>> Using DSP, Then print the current strength to a file, and graph it.
>>>
>>> Is there any way to get the current signal strength and store it in a
>>> bash
>>> variable or something?
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Skyler  kd0whb
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:23:32 -0600
>>> From: Jeff Carrier <k0jsc.jeff at gmail.com>
>>> To: app_rpt mailing list <app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16
>>> Message-ID:
>>>         <CAA_aZLi0cTnC8rpcup3RQGO61JQORpe6Si6TH=
>>> 5+cCGyHpsCow at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> The RTCM and simulcast DOES work.  As mentioned before, you have to be
>>> using a transmitter that can accept a 10 mHz (or whatever) reference
>>> signal.  You also need 1 PPS for your receivers and transmitter.  You
>>> also
>>> need to sync the RTCM to your GPSDO (which I have not done).  If you have
>>> not done all this you WILL hear some "funk" in the overlap areas.
>>>
>>> That "funk" can go from usable to un-usable depending on how strong the
>>> transmitters are in the overlap region.
>>>
>>> Pardon the "non-technical" terms.  It does work but the law of physics do
>>> apply here.
>>>
>>> de K0JSC
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 9:54 AM, <app_rpt-users-request at ohnosec.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Send App_rpt-users mailing list submissions to
>>> >         app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> >
>>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> >         http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> >         app_rpt-users-request at ohnosec.org
>>> >
>>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> >         app_rpt-users-owner at ohnosec.org
>>> >
>>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> > than "Re: Contents of App_rpt-users digest..."
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Today's Topics:
>>> >
>>> >    1. Re: audio for direct VCO FM (Joe Leikhim) (Steve Wright)
>>> >    2. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Steve Wright)
>>> >    3. Re: audio for direct VCO FM: Si5351B (David McGough)
>>> >    4. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Joe Moskalski)
>>> >    5. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (David McGough)
>>> >    6. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Joe Moskalski)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 1
>>> > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:40:50 +1200
>>> > From: Steve Wright <info at meshnetworks.co.nz>
>>> > To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> > Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio for direct VCO FM (Joe Leikhim)
>>> > Message-ID: <57552902.9070008 at meshnetworks.co.nz>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>> >
>>> > On 04/06/16 04:00, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite at leikhim.com> wrote:
>>> > > Assuming the VCO is part of a PLL, the PLL will tend to "correct" the
>>> > > modulation, [....]
>>> >
>>> > Was planning to use the Si5351B - has VCO input.
>>> >
>>> > S
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 2
>>> > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 20:22:36 +1200
>>> > From: Steve Wright <info at meshnetworks.co.nz>
>>> > To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> > Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
>>> > Message-ID: <575532CC.2020304 at meshnetworks.co.nz>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > I will be setting up a 2 site UHF simulcast system in the coming
>>> months
>>> >
>>> > Huh?  I was told (on this list) that simulcast TX "doesn't work".
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > S
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 3
>>> > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:46:38 -0400 (EDT)
>>> > From: David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
>>> > To: app_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> > Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio for direct VCO FM: Si5351B
>>> > Message-ID:
>>> >         <Pine.LNX.4.44.1606060946450.4196-100000 at goliath.inttek.net>
>>> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi Steve,
>>> >
>>> > We're getting way off topic for the mailing list, but, I thought I'd
>>> post
>>> > this reply here if there are any other interested hams out there,
>>> perhaps
>>> > who are also experimenting in this area.
>>> >
>>> > I haven't played with the Si5351B version of this interesting chip,
>>> yet. I
>>> > wonder whether the voltage control input of this chip would be suitable
>>> > for AF FM modulation? Assuming that you could modulate the VCXO at
>>> audio
>>> > frequencies (the datasheet isn't completely clear to me about that), an
>>> > immediate issue would be that everytime you change the fractional-N
>>> > division ratio, you'll change the modulation index. This will have to
>>> be
>>> > compensated for, one way or another.
>>> >
>>> > I've been playing with several boards with Si5351 chips. They're pretty
>>> > neat. They're also pretty noisy! ...With both spurious and phase noise.
>>> > The phase noise can be improved somewhat with a better external crystal
>>> > oscillator, the spurs seem more challenging.  Using the on-board VCXO
>>> with
>>> > the 5351B, you can't use a high quality external oscillator, so phase
>>> > noise and overall frequency stability could be an issue, too.
>>> >
>>> > Anyhow, for my applications, I'm following the Si5351 with a secondary
>>> > clean-up VCO/PLL, which was already in the radios. I just needed a
>>> > frequency-agile reference oscillator, so to speak. I think the Si5351
>>> will
>>> > work well for this, based on my preliminary tests! (I'd certainly like
>>> to
>>> > hear the experiences from anyone who has already been down this road!)
>>> >
>>> > I guess you're not finding any local sources of surplus radios?  Do you
>>> > have any 6m power amps available?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 73, David KB4FXC
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Steve Wright wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On 04/06/16 04:00, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite at leikhim.com> wrote:
>>> > > > Assuming the VCO is part of a PLL, the PLL will tend to "correct"
>>> the
>>> > > > modulation, [....]
>>> > >
>>> > > Was planning to use the Si5351B - has VCO input.
>>> > >
>>> > > S
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 4
>>> > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:03:11 -0400
>>> > From: Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com>
>>> > To: App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> > Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
>>> > Message-ID:
>>> >         <CAES28qxB06niu+nL4Y5QfUvgZFf-y8s=
>>> > uZdH2afzxKnwr0HV+w at mail.gmail.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >
>>> > > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properly with the
>>> RTCM
>>> > > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a device
>>> available to
>>> > > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from the GPSDO or
>>> does
>>> > > anyone have a schematic available so that I can build them myself?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > <
>>> >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
>>> > >
>>> > Virus-free.
>>> > www.avast.com
>>> > <
>>> >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
>>> > >
>>> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> > -------------- next part --------------
>>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> > URL: <
>>> >
>>> http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/a36d4626/attachment-0001.html
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 5
>>> > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:36:01 -0400 (EDT)
>>> > From: David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
>>> > To: App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> > Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
>>> > Message-ID:
>>> >         <Pine.LNX.4.44.1606061122550.4196-100000 at goliath.inttek.net>
>>> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi Joe,
>>> >
>>> > While on the subject of the Si5351 chips, the application of converting
>>> > one reference clock to a secondary frequency is what they were designed
>>> > for. So, since you've already got a GPS reference, this -might- be an
>>> > inexpensive starting point...For this application, you obviously won't
>>> > need all the bells and whistles presented in this article! See:
>>> >
>>> > http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf
>>> > http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus
>>> >
>>> > Note that I would replace the Si5351 25MHz reference with a decent TCXO
>>> > (available on ebay, etc.)....Note that I haven't used the Si5351 with
>>> an
>>> > RTCM, there may be simpler/better ways???
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 73, David KB4FXC
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properly with
>>> the
>>> > RTCM
>>> > > > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a device
>>> available
>>> > to
>>> > > > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from the GPSDO
>>> or
>>> > does
>>> > > > anyone have a schematic available so that I can build them myself?
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > <
>>> >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
>>> > >
>>> > > Virus-free.
>>> > > www.avast.com
>>> > > <
>>> >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
>>> > >
>>> > > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 6
>>> > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:54:11 -0400
>>> > From: Joe Moskalski <kc2irv at gmail.com>
>>> > To: David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
>>> > Cc: App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> > Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
>>> > Message-ID:
>>> >         <
>>> > CAES28qx-G3wytTXKMRVvzMNm+498_c-aeNB6JrTWmZOR7A7ZcA at mail.gmail.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >
>>> > I mentioned this to someone else, QRP Labs has a kit that creates a
>>> OCXO
>>> > around the Si5351 chip. here is the link:
>>> >
>>> > http://www.qrp-labs.com/ocxokit.html
>>> >
>>> > If you couple this with another kit of theirs you can program it it any
>>> > frequency you want. My only thought is would it be accurate/stable
>>> enough.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.qrp-labs.com/progrock.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > <
>>> >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
>>> > >
>>> > Virus-free.
>>> > www.avast.com
>>> > <
>>> >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
>>> > >
>>> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 11:36 AM, David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > Hi Joe,
>>> > >
>>> > > While on the subject of the Si5351 chips, the application of
>>> converting
>>> > > one reference clock to a secondary frequency is what they were
>>> designed
>>> > > for. So, since you've already got a GPS reference, this -might- be an
>>> > > inexpensive starting point...For this application, you obviously
>>> won't
>>> > > need all the bells and whistles presented in this article! See:
>>> > >
>>> > > http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf
>>> > > http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus
>>> > >
>>> > > Note that I would replace the Si5351 25MHz reference with a decent
>>> TCXO
>>> > > (available on ebay, etc.)....Note that I haven't used the Si5351
>>> with an
>>> > > RTCM, there may be simpler/better ways???
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > 73, David KB4FXC
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properly with
>>> the
>>> > > RTCM
>>> > > > > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a device
>>> > available
>>> > > to
>>> > > > > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from the
>>> GPSDO or
>>> > > does
>>> > > > > anyone have a schematic available so that I can build them
>>> myself?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > <
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Virus-free.
>>> > > > www.avast.com
>>> > > > <
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
>>> > > >
>>> > > > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > App_rpt-users mailing list
>>> > > App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
>>> > > http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>>> > >
>>> > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit
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>>> > down
>>> > > to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the
>>> > > "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
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>>> > > the list detailing the problem.
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>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
> --
> KJ6QFS
> Sam Skolfield
>
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