October 2016 - FRC-Info - lists.keekles.org

Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information
by kg4ugk 05 Oct '16

05 Oct '16

Seeing that no one opted in for this email list, FRC did not provide him with contact information, and in fact tried/attempted to keep our information private. And the fact Bryan owns/hosts lists.keekles.org (the server responsible for this newly created list) I suggest that you contact his registrar/hosting providers abuse system to form a complaint. Enom.com:abuse@enom.com Registrant Name: BRYAN FIELDS Registrant Organization: Registrant Street: 501 80TH AVE Registrant City: ST PETE BEACH Registrant State/Province: FL Registrant Postal Code: 33706 Registrant Country: US Registrant Phone: +1.7274091194 Registrant Phone Ext: Registrant Fax: +1.5555555555 Registrant Fax Ext: Registrant Email: Registrar Abuse Contact: +1.4252982646 abuse(a)enom.com And as many of us have spoken up about our past successful interactions and the fact Bryan decided to leave them out on this thread, I've decided to copy the 'accused' on this email. He has clearly stated his request for our personal information was with held by the FRC, and that he proceeded to seek alternative means of acquiring our information in an effort to contact us. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message --------From: Bob Dunkin <rldunkin(a)comcast.net> Date: 10/4/16 7:17 PM (GMT-05:00) To: 'Florida Repeater Council Discussion' <frc-info(a)lists.keekles.org> Subject: Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information unsubscribe From: vernon ferris Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 6:09 PM To: 'Florida Repeater Council Discussion' Subject: Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information Hi Ron and John, I have dealt with Dana on three repeaters, mine and two that the county turned over to me as ARES EC for the county and as a volunteer himself he has done a good job. And I agree with both of you. Have a good week and keep your feet dry. Vern, W4NEK From: FRC-Info [mailto:frc-info-bounces@lists.keekles.org] On Behalf Of mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 12:43 PM To: Florida Repeater Council Discussion Subject: Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information John, Yes, I think you are correct. Just seems I was not getting replies from others. have been getting today. It is good to have these discussions and the FRC does need guidance from us into repeaters. Just seems one guy has a beef and wants to take over and he has little to do with repeaters really. More of a club board member. And being into the internet service or an IT guy is very little tech knowledge of this subject. Engineering firms do not consider IT guys technical people. But they have a valuable place. I think the FRC does a good job, but they are often slow. Our District 4 director has responded to me quickly in last year when i need assistance in getting a pair for a repeater. not sure what other directors do. Dana is very slow, I think he picks one Saturday in the month and works on what he has received, hi. But he is very knowledgeable about the issues...has lots of experience over the last 20 years dealing with the issues. 73, ron, n9ee/r a know code Extra Ron Wright, N9EE/R BSEE Micro Computer Concepts 352-683-4476 mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com From: FRC-Info <frc-info-bounces(a)lists.keekles.org> on behalf of Jon Pearl - W4ABC <jonpearl(a)tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 11:40 AM To: Florida Repeater Council Discussion Subject: Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information Good morning Ron, Is it possible that you're capturing all of the email messages from the FRC list server? It appears that you've somehow arrived at the decision that all are not allowed to communicate in this venue. Here are the archives: http://lists.keekles.org/pipermail/frc-info/ I posted a message to the group yesterday, and while it appeared to all on the list almost immediately, I personally didn't see it arrive in my own mailbox for quite some time. I see this happen quite frequently on the Tower-Talk list server. 73, Jon Pearl - W4ABC On 10/3/2016 11:47 AM, mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com wrote: Bryan, It appears this discussion is between you and us, not between us and us. A real discussion would be between all of us. 73, ron, n9ee/r a know code Extra And once more... On 10/3/2016 1:25 PM, mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com wrote: (snip) Just like this discussion and whoever started it, they are not allowing all to communicate. Do we want this in FRC??? 73, ron, n9ee/r a know code Extra Ron Wright, N9EE/R BSEE Micro Computer Concepts 352-683-4476 mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ FRC-Info mailing list FRC-Info(a)lists.keekles.org http://lists.keekles.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/frc-info

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FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information
by David Krauss 05 Oct '16

05 Oct '16

I think we can all mostly agree the automatic subscription to the list may not have been the best idea and I've expressed this to Bryan myself. Nonetheless, me being either brave or stupid, have decided to publicly support his views, for the most part. Ron, i don't know where you got the idea Bryan doesn't know anything about repeaters. He does know about repeaters, a lot. He has several on the air now, and has had several in other states. I've seen him do some conversions on equipment i would never have thought possible , and I've been running repeaters well over 30 years, just like you if i'm not mistaken. Remember K5FOG? WA4IBM? W4CF? I was WD4KEZ back then in 1980 when i built my first repeater. anyway, I'm rambling. there are many that have not posted publicly here that also agree. The silent majority, i believe. Sooo. instead of arguing about it, can we use this forum as a rational discussion on these issues? Here's my 2 cents 1. The FRC model of board members continually voting themselves back in has to stop. term limits are needed. 2. District directors should be up for renewal every 2 years, but could still be appointed , by a term limited board. Most agree we have some good folks working as directors in many areas. 3. The database must be rebuilt using a modern, query-able database by a competent programmer. MySql is probably the best option. 4. the web site must be updated from its apparent 1990's base to a modern interface that allows a request to be posted to the database and the appropriate people notified. Using SQL spatial queries against the coordinates along with other entered data could even allow for instant potential pairs to be output to the users. There are no technical reasons these couldn't be implemented pretty readily, and a revision of the by laws could handle the administrative side. I don't think these are radical ideas at all. but ones needed to bring the current stagnation to an end. 73 NX4Y p25nx.com twitter #p25nx

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Updated Proxy Form/Membership
by Bryan Fields 05 Oct '16

05 Oct '16

A member remade the proxy form to be a bit more legal looking in a docx and pdf format. Please use either form and get them back to me ASAP if you wish to reform the FRC. Word Format: http://bryanfields.net/FRC-info/Proxy%20Form.docx PDF: http://bryanfields.net/FRC-info/Proxy%20Form.pdf It's been brought to my attention the FRC membership website was taken off-line. I can only suspect to keep people from becoming members or renewing. Regardless, if you are not currently a member or there is doubt to your membership status, please send me a proxy anyways. I will pay dues on your behalf at the meeting and we can settle up after the meeting. 73's -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net

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Re: [FRC] Florida Repeater Council Information
by DWFComm＠aol.com 05 Oct '16

05 Oct '16

I'm pretty sure that I am not an FRC member, though not certain..as I have not had any form of "Minutes of meetings" in ages -if ever. I had thought that the unusually slow processing speed was a "due diligence" effect , and a nuisance at best ..however I have heard of "Paper Repeaters" existing and even a story of certain frequencies/pairs being held from general use only to be "sold" to some well healed or politically influential entities. How any of the above -if true- equates to the proper management of frequency assets worries me , and throws the otherwise best practices book into the Chipper. If your efforts would include an immediate sweep for DEAD WOOD and Paper machines ...count me in. If it was truly the best the current FRC could do, God bless them for the effort , but If stories of malice are true ..an intervention is clearly needed. However , I can't help thinking that previous performance of the FRC and the attrition of Hams capable of ginning up a repeater .,constitute a rapidly approaching drain. In my travels over the last few years , I have heard a shocking ebb in repeater activity ,and even the once friendly VHF Spx 146.52 is near desolate of travel companions. I fear that HAMS willing to put up with the "WE SAY SO Company " ethic of the recent FRC...are likely to believe a new FRC would be just rearranging the deck chairs on the "S.S. Minnow" . Yours, Dave Fragale KA4CNP 444.4/449.4 192.8 Seminole In a message dated 10/2/2016 10:23:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Bryan(a)bryanfields.net writes: Greetings and welcome to the Florida Repeater Discussion List, I am Bryan Fields, W9CR. I’m involved in amateur radio in the Tampa Bay area, with membership in four local clubs and chairman of the Technical Committee for my local group. Professionally I am a Network Architect with a major telecom company. I’ ve been a licensed amateur since 1995 (over 2/3 of my life), hold a GROL+Radar and have a background in cellular/microwave networks. Fellow Amateurs, the FRC is an organization run amuck. Incompetent directors are managing it, flouting the bylaws, violating Florida Law, and ignoring member needs. I am asking for your proxy for the upcoming FRC meeting. It has failed in its ability to coordinate operations of amateur radio repeaters in the following ways: * Publication of the FRC database on a public website * This database dump in MySQL format and the associated webpages show without a doubt the level of incompetency in the programming behind the database. This is nothing but gross negligence on the part of Director Rodakis and Director Lavender. * Per the coordination policy, locations are to be kept secret, however a Reddit user was kind enough to post a Google earth KML showing the coordinated location of every repeater in the state. * All your personal data, phone, email, home address, repeater site address and Repeater Site GPS coordinates are published. * Length of the coordination process is unacceptable! * As of this writing coordination applications post 1/25/2016 have not been processed. It’s October! * If the coordinator cannot process applications in a reasonable time, he needs to step down. * Renewals have not been processed post 5/7/2016! As most coordinations expire on 9/30/2016, this means no members may vote under the bylaws! This applies to the board as well. * Violation of the coordination policy by the directors * Willful violation of the bylaws by the directors * Willful violations of FS 617 regarding members request for information * Acknowledged receipt of this by President Kassis * Publicly stating the policy of the FRC is “is unable to search for available frequencies”, when this is the FCC definition of a frequency coordinator. * When they do suggest frequencies there active repeaters on them, some even coordinated well under the radius. * Inventing new coordination polices on the fly without approval of the board The FRC must be reformed if it wishes to keep its legitimacy. Frequency coordination is voluntary in amateur radio, and there is little reason for amateur radio operators in Florida to seek coordination from the FRC under this current administration. My goal is to transform this organization into a healthy helping hand for repeater operators and other amateur spectrum users. No one should be answered with contempt for months after putting an application in for coordination only to be told “fill it out again, we can’t edit it”. This should not be an organization which exists as a good-ol’-boy system breading contempt; rather one which operates in the open, in accordance with its bylaws, and accountable to its members. The FRC should ask how to say “Yes” rather than saying “No” in working with their members and other amateurs. My plan to get us on the right track is: * Remove the current directors for gross incompetency and exposing the organization to liability: * Ray Kassis, N4LEM * Dana Rodakis, K4LK * (Glenn) Mike Fletcher, NI4M * Chuck Lavender, W4CLL * Demand new elections for existing directors in compliance with the bylaws. * Establish a bylaw committee to rewrite the bylaws and change the organization structure to better serve all amateurs in Florida. * Establish a development process for new policies from the membership * Encourage input from the membership based on sound technical policies * De-centralize coordination by having a web enabled database be accessible to the public showing all history of an application through coordination. * No one person should be the gatekeeper of the database. * Make all records of the FRC open to the public, as any non-profit serving the public interest must be. I will make a motion to accomplish this at the next meeting at the Melbourne Hamfest meeting. To make this happen, I am asking for your proxy, if you’re a member of the FRC. You will need to print out this form and sign it, then send a scan or legible picture of it to me via email or text message. If you can attend the meeting, please do so. It’s $10 to become a member on the FRC website and it buys the right to have a say in the future of amateur radio in Florida. http://florida-repeaters.org/donate.htm I fully expect to be shouted down by the board, but as members we cannot be ignored. I wish to resolve this via the membership, but if ignored I do intend to comply the board, by any legal means, to follow the bylaws and FS 617. I need your proxy by the Friday, October 7, 2016. 73’s and see you at Melbourne, Bryan Fields, W9CR P.S. Please feel free to discuss this on list. If you wish to not be a part of this discussion you can remove yourself using the link at the bottom. I'm happy to oblige your wishes via direct email as well if you have any questions. _______________________________________________ FRC-Info mailing list FRC-Info(a)lists.keekles.org http://lists.keekles.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/frc-info

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Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information
by kg4ugk 05 Oct '16

05 Oct '16

And if so.. I advise you to voice your opinion as that's the only way to be heard, as well as hopefully resolve any concerns the ham community may have. In no way am I attempting to discredit Bryan or his views. We are all entitled to our own opinions. And in fact if it wasn't for this list, I wouldn't have even know about the scheduled meetings. I'm considering attending one myself solely because of this thread. I think someone else mentioned earlier, if there's a suggestion or a plan on how things can be executed better, than bring it to everyone's attention. But pointing the finger at someone else isn't going to resolve anything. And believe that Bryan may get some animosity due to his methods of contacting us. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message --------From: Frank Echanique <ki4ijq(a)flecom.net> Date: 10/4/16 10:28 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Florida Repeater Council Discussion <frc-info(a)lists.keekles.org> Subject: Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information people have had good interactions with the FRC? I can assure you that wasn't my experience… I don't think I have ever dealt with a more dysfunctional organization On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:24 PM, kg4ugk <kg4ugk(a)kg4ugk.com> wrote: Seeing that no one opted in for this email list, FRC did not provide him with contact information, and in fact tried/attempted to keep our information private. And the fact Bryan owns/hosts lists.keekles.org (the server responsible for this newly created list) I suggest that you contact his registrar/hosting providers abuse system to form a complaint. Enom.com:abuse@enom.com Registrant Name: BRYAN FIELDS Registrant Organization: Registrant Street: 501 80TH AVE Registrant City: ST PETE BEACH Registrant State/Province: FL Registrant Postal Code: 33706 Registrant Country: US Registrant Phone: +1.7274091194 Registrant Phone Ext: Registrant Fax: +1.5555555555 Registrant Fax Ext: Registrant Email: Registrar Abuse Contact: +1.4252982646 abuse(a)enom.com And as many of us have spoken up about our past successful interactions and the fact Bryan decided to leave them out on this thread, I've decided to copy the 'accused' on this email. He has clearly stated his request for our personal information was with held by the FRC, and that he proceeded to seek alternative means of acquiring our information in an effort to contact us. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message --------From: Bob Dunkin <rldunkin(a)comcast.net> Date: 10/4/16 7:17 PM (GMT-05:00) To: 'Florida Repeater Council Discussion' <frc-info(a)lists.keekles.org> Subject: Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information unsubscribe From: vernon ferris Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 6:09 PM To: 'Florida Repeater Council Discussion' Subject: Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information Hi Ron and John, I have dealt with Dana on three repeaters, mine and two that the county turned over to me as ARES EC for the county and as a volunteer himself he has done a good job. And I agree with both of you. Have a good week and keep your feet dry. Vern, W4NEK From: FRC-Info [mailto:frc-info-bounces@lists.keekles.org] On Behalf Of mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 12:43 PM To: Florida Repeater Council Discussion Subject: Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information John, Yes, I think you are correct. Just seems I was not getting replies from others. have been getting today. It is good to have these discussions and the FRC does need guidance from us into repeaters. Just seems one guy has a beef and wants to take over and he has little to do with repeaters really. More of a club board member. And being into the internet service or an IT guy is very little tech knowledge of this subject. Engineering firms do not consider IT guys technical people. But they have a valuable place. I think the FRC does a good job, but they are often slow. Our District 4 director has responded to me quickly in last year when i need assistance in getting a pair for a repeater. not sure what other directors do. Dana is very slow, I think he picks one Saturday in the month and works on what he has received, hi. But he is very knowledgeable about the issues...has lots of experience over the last 20 years dealing with the issues. 73, ron, n9ee/r a know code Extra Ron Wright, N9EE/R BSEE Micro Computer Concepts 352-683-4476 mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com From: FRC-Info <frc-info-bounces(a)lists.keekles.org> on behalf of Jon Pearl - W4ABC <jonpearl(a)tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 11:40 AM To: Florida Repeater Council Discussion Subject: Re: [FRC] FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information Good morning Ron, Is it possible that you're capturing all of the email messages from the FRC list server? It appears that you've somehow arrived at the decision that all are not allowed to communicate in this venue. Here are the archives: http://lists.keekles.org/pipermail/frc-info/ I posted a message to the group yesterday, and while it appeared to all on the list almost immediately, I personally didn't see it arrive in my own mailbox for quite some time. I see this happen quite frequently on the Tower-Talk list server. 73, Jon Pearl - W4ABC On 10/3/2016 11:47 AM, mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com wrote: Bryan, It appears this discussion is between you and us, not between us and us. A real discussion would be between all of us. 73, ron, n9ee/r a know code Extra And once more... On 10/3/2016 1:25 PM, mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com wrote: (snip) Just like this discussion and whoever started it, they are not allowing all to communicate. Do we want this in FRC??? 73, ron, n9ee/r a know code Extra Ron Wright, N9EE/R BSEE Micro Computer Concepts 352-683-4476 mccrpt(a)tampabay.rr.com This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ FRC-Info mailing list FRC-Info(a)lists.keekles.org http://lists.keekles.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/frc-info _______________________________________________ FRC-Info mailing list FRC-Info(a)lists.keekles.org http://lists.keekles.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/frc-info

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FYI... Florida Repeater Council Information
by Dave Messinger H. 04 Oct '16

04 Oct '16

Gentlemen (and Ladies, if any) , I don’t know where you got this e-mail from. I truly doubt you got it legitimately from the FRC. Regardless, I have not asked to be included in this group or any discussions, You are e-mailing my work/Government e-mail account (so everything is open the Florida Sunshine Law), And finally, I have never had any troubles with the Florida Repeater Council. They have always acted quickly and fairly with any questions or registration I have had. Mr. Fields, I would ask that, in the future, you consider your actions a bit more before blindly e-mailing a large group of people with your grievances. -----=====-----=====----- Dave H. Messinger Communications Specialist Palm Beach County Network Support Services FCC Licenses: N4QPM, WQCA678 [cid:image002.png@01CAB493.44E57100] Please Note: Due to Florida’s very broad records laws, most written communications to or from County employees regarding County business are public records, available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, this written e-mail communication, including your e-mail address, may be subject to public disclosure. --- From: FRC-Info [mailto:frc-info-bounces@lists.keekles.org] On Behalf Of kg4ugk(a)kg4ugk.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2016 8:26 AM To: Florida Repeater Council Discussion <frc-info(a)lists.keekles.org> Subject: Re: [FRC] Florida Repeater Council Information Back in 2002, Dana was extremely helpful in getting my coordination completed. Bryan, question. Why would you need a listing of unused pairs? It seems counter productive to starting a new repeater, as well as trying to find existing ones. In my understanding and past experience, you request temporary coordination and based on your location and desired output power, they then assign you a frequency pair that won't interfere with existing repeaters in the output powers RF range. They then give you time to setup and test before providing full coordination. Launching a repeater on an unused frequency pair, would potentially cause interference to those setting one up in the future, and would possibly result in a cease and deceit letter from the FCC when someone else receives coordination for that pair. Best regards, Shawn Campbell KG4UGK -----Original Message----- From: vern(a)highwayusa.com<mailto:vern@highwayusa.com> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:58am To: "Florida Repeater Council Discussion" <frc-info(a)lists.keekles.org<mailto:frc-info@lists.keekles.org>> Subject: Re: [FRC] Florida Repeater Council Information I must say that I have tried several times to contact the council to see if I could fire my repeater back up on my old pair, and have heard nothing. I thought they were defunct until I saw this email come through. Vern KI4ONW > > P.S. Please feel free to discuss this on list. If you >wish to not be a part of this discussion you can remove >yourself using the link at the bottom. I'm happy to >oblige your wishes via direct email as well if you have >any questions. > > > > _______________________________________________ >FRC-Info mailing list > <mailto:FRC-Info@lists.keekles.org> >FRC-Info(a)lists.keekles.org<mailto:FRC-Info@lists.keekles.org> > <http://lists.keekles.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/frc-info> >http://lists.keekles.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/frc-info > _______________________________________________ FRC-Info mailing list FRC-Info(a)lists.keekles.org<mailto:FRC-Info@lists.keekles.org> http://lists.keekles.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/frc-info ________________________________ Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, contact this office by phone or in writing.

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unsubscribe
by Jim Wojcik 04 Oct '16

04 Oct '16

unsubscribe

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Unsubscribe Option
by kg4ugk＠kg4ugk.com 04 Oct '16

04 Oct '16

I've seen a few people request their email address be removed from the "FRC" mailing list. I am NOT the owner/operator of this mailing list. Didn't even know it existed until receiving todays email thread. While we all may have different reactions to today's email thread. I do _personally_ believe in the future this list could be useful. I would suggest applying a filter to auto delete the current subject line if you are upset with the amount of emails it is generating. But with all that said: [ http://lists.keekles.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/frc-info ]( http://lists.keekles.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/frc-info ) Has an option to allow anyone to remove themselves from the list. Hope this helps some of you _out_ (pun intended) Shawn Campbell KG4UGK

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frc meetings
by David Krauss 04 Oct '16

04 Oct '16

Ron, that's the problem. members are often not taken seriously. Now I do agree that there are some good directors and I personally have no problem with the tampa area director. but the FRC infrastructure is badly broken. It's been broken for a long time. And it needs fixing. 73 Dave NX4Y Sent from an iPhone 6

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mail list
by David Krauss 04 Oct '16

04 Oct '16

I know Bryan meant well.. maybe a bcc email to start would have worked better ! but what's done is done. I for one want to move on and find like-minded repeater owners that are looking for a more efficient process. I believe Bryan knows very well what's required to do repeater coordination and i don't think he's proposing to do it all himself. Rather , some people that are seriously interested in helping Florida repeaters. Some of those people may well be already involved in the FRC. some not. Dave NX4Y Sent from an iPhone 6

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